I was doing some thinking...

[robkelk]

... as Legion can "lock down" his local reality to the rules he wants -- it's not something that shows up a lot, but he does it in one of the early stories. I can't remember which at the moment, though.

The second one, I think (but I'm not sure). I do remember that it was so he could survive an encounter with one of the Q, and that scene was relatively early in the series.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[kentmagus]

I've figured it out. Shay Guy's really an I-Cop out to protect the Secret.

[Rod.H]

You could ask some others on their take on TrD/U crossing & technique. Why doesn't Star Ranger have a Warrior-World-alike to robotech to Sailor Moon to
Ranma and back at yet to be determined point to homeverse with a Sailor Moon stagger.

Cause if we could dig Ed from whatever it is he's doing now (torturing Xander, mentoring and advising on big BOOM!s for the sci-fi fic set apparently) and
dose him up with some Legion Quest mojo, answers or confusion could result. Probably not before Bert fires out BZ 11 and his cohorts produce some more
'Three Knights'.

[Star Ranger4]

Actually, the progression was another V&V world, to the Castle Perilous Series, to a couple of 'null's, to Sailor Moon, then Robotech, to Ranma...

The system my avatar has isnt really a BID, but more like Doug and Twisters portals, only his are generated by a techomagical bodge put together by the castle
perilous geek squad with a bit of Back to the Future thrown in, what with his having to drive 'Fred' through at 88mph to have enough speed to get
through the portal during the few seconds its open.

And Bless you for remembering me Rod.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Shay Guy]

Okay, I've read the Dirty Pair part of the Legion's Quest crossover and figured out that that's linked to Revenge Wars. This is getting highly irksome. RW is closely linked with the "animated actors" conceit, and it's mind-boggling trying to figure out how that holds together. And I'm still trying to figure out what would happen if somebody wound up in the 1/0 world. And what about worlds which aren't logically and internally consistent, like, I dunno, the Left Behind-verse? If Doug ended up in Star Wars, and tried to figure out how Coruscant was thermodynamically possible, what would he learn? Or try this - "once upon a time there was a world in which there was a complete and consistent set of axioms for all of mathematics." An alternate version of Kurt Gödel goes to that world I just described using a Burroughs Irrelevancy Drive or whatever - do his theorems hold?

Another thought: It's impossible for any of these travelers - Twister, Doug, Titanite, whoever - to end up in the "true canon" of, say, the Marvel Universe. If they go there, it would be in a fanfic, and therefore by definition not the "true" canon. To go to the canon Earth-616, the author would need the authorization of Marvel Comics. Consider that: for someone from universe A to go to universe B, somebody in universe C needs to get permission from somebody else in universe C. How is that possible, under the framework these stories operate on?

More RW ideas: 1) Ranma turns out to have written a Dragonball Z fanfic, and the DBZ cast comes to get revenge on HIM during the revengefic-fest. 2) The cast of 1/0, after their implied ending, hear about the reverse insertions - maybe somebody from the FFML lives in Portland - and they protest the anime characters' actions, arguing that it is an author's right and responsibility to cause conflict in their stories, and so forth. (The whole RW idea strikes me very strongly of 1984 - punishment for "thoughtcrime." What's the substantial difference between imagining something and writing it, anyway?) The problem with this is timing - 1/0 started in 2000 and ended in 2003.

I still haven't started on a multiverse-map - what's a good way to make something like that? Fnord, how'd you make the story-crossover-map? Would something like a mind-mapping program work, or would I need to break out the GIMP? Speaking of the map, I don't quite understand the "indirect links," except that LQ1 is effectively an Undocumented Features fanfic.

Another thought on what Evil Midnight Lurker said about superficial similarity that I found easier to understand, not being really familiar with BGC - the Nyannichuan. Twister got hit with a version that specifically gives you the appearance of Onna-Ranma - or, presumably, the girl who drowned in the spring years ago. Currently, I believe the theory is that it just turns you into a girl version of YOURSELF. So other Ranmaverses have different Nyannichuan curses. Yet the bulk of them, in their initial state, conform to a story created in other universes by a manga-ka named Rumiko Takahashi. (Yet Another Idea - a universe in which the Ranma ½ manga exists, and is written by a Rumiko Takahashi, but is substantially different from the manga we know.)

I've started developing my own theory and vocabulary for fictionality, but this post is getting pretty long as it is, and that's the sort of thing that really needs its own post. Anybody interested?

Gah. One MORE thought (two, counting "I really need to learn to organize my thoughts in forum posts better"). Does Revenge Wars, or any other story in the space, connect with the universe/multiverse/whatsit of "The Bet?"

---

Pronounced "shy guy."

[Disruptor]

Hm. It's been a while since I commented here.

However, since I was at one time one of the Revenge Wars authors, I think I should comment.

The Bet and RW had nothing really to do with each other. The only thing that might would be the SD-Revenge Wars.

During the meltdown, I tossed my hands up in disgust and walked away. Everyone wanted to get on the storyline with Nemesis(the Ifurita clone) and not bother
with the one off of Fred dealing with Cronos. IMPO the Nemesis plotline was rather small compared to a full on invasion of another world. Ah well, I'm
better off with that out of my hair.

I went on and started writing my own fanfics on my site or on one of the Addventures, such as the one that crosses Harry Potter and Tron.
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor

[M Fnord]

Fnord, how'd you make the story-crossover-map? Would something like a mind-mapping program work, or would I need to break out the GIMP? Speaking of the map, I don't quite understand the "indirect links," except that LQ1 is effectively an Undocumented Features fanfic.

I did all the heavy lifting in Illustrator, because I don't have any decent flowchart-creation programs (nor was I really willing to warez one *just* to put together the map). If you've got the latest edition of CS I could probably hunt down & send the .ai file to you if you're obsessed enough to take up the banner.

As for indirect links, those are for linking stories that have certain story-crossover elements show up but don't seem to take place in the same "universe" as the stories which are directly linked.

For example: The Revenge Wars section of the map has three elements, the Revenge Wars cycle proper, Zen's (AFAIK) untitled Revenge Wars stories featuring the Dirty Pair, and Sean Gaffney's story "Won't Get Fooled Again." Legion's Quest links directly to Zen's stories, so it gets a hub link, and a direct link back to the full Revenge Wars. "Won't Get Fooled Again" is a Dirty Pair/World-As-Myth crossover which wouldn't rate placing on the map *except* that it has a nontrivial appearance by Zen! There's no indication in the text that says the world Legion's Quest intersects with is the same one as "WGFA," so it gets an indirect link.

Some of this is speculative. The Eyrieverse section is made up of Eyrie writers or people who were inspired by UF back in the dawn ages of net fanfic (this explains why Otaku Rising and Serendipity are on the list, frex, and where the hard link to LQ comes from). Based on my own inferences there's a hard link between UF and The Iron Age, because a) it's obviously a reboot of Hopelessly Lost so it merits an indirect link to begin with, and b) there's a passage in the first episode that hints at a more direct connection. Now, it's possible that I could be wrong, and that part of the map is invalid. But it'll be a long while before I find out. (And no, I'm not going to ask Gryph. That would be cheating.)

The only indirect hub link - between Legion's Quest and American Kitsune - is more out of a sense of decorum than honesty. Ed Becerra *did* work with David Gonterman on that abortion of a story, and Legion *does* make an appearance as it goes along. I can prove it if I have to, but that'd require reading that goddamn thing again, and I just can't muster up the hate or self-loathing necessary to do something that damaging.

That's all a bit teal deer, but it should give you the data you need.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Bob Schroeck]

In the case of links out of DW, it's pretty simple. Most of the time it's things that are implied to exist elsewhere in the multiverse but aren't actually seen "on screen". For instance, the Dance of Shiva link is the result of a single sentence someone will say in the last chapter of DW5. The Bubblegum Avatar link comes because Craig Reed's SI character has a copy of Drunkard's Walk available to him (explicitly so, as Sylia keeps making him use Doug's name as an alias), and there's a similar echo back when Doug is given Craig's name as a cover identity late in DW2.

Technically, I suppose that Bubblegum Zone and Amanda Stairs' "Yumiko Asagiri" stories would also be indirectly linked to DW, because of the cameos by analogues of Bert and Yumiko in DW2...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[yumekochan]

Yumeko. It's Yumeko.

I'm not quite sure what to call Yumeko's stories, since they're not confined to just Next Gen. I just refer to them as Yumeko's adventures
o.o*

--Amanda (first post here, whee!)
"Hey, it's not like dying is on my schedule for this week."
--Yumeko Asagiri, Bubblegum Crisis: The Next Generation, part 3

[Foxboy]

Welcome to the forums! Wipe your feet on the mat, leave the shoes by the door and have some fun!
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[yumekochan]

Thank yew, thank yew. Despite the fact Yumeko got used in DWII I can honestly say I haven't really read any of DW ^_^; I guess I have a lot to catch up
on!

--Amanda
"Hey, it's not like dying is on my schedule for this week."
--Yumeko Asagiri, Bubblegum Crisis: The Next Generation, part 3

[Bob Schroeck]

Yumeko. It's Yumeko.

Yeah, I know... I was just sleepy and prone to typos that morning. Sorry.

So... welcome to the DW forums, Amanda! I should have invited you to come on by and join the fun years ago. Take your time to get up to speed on the stories, they're far from the only thing we talk about here.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm still trying to figure out general information about the whatever-you-call-it-verse as a whole. A lot of it, for obvious reasons, is inconsistent. I mean, take the Event. As far as I know, Twister's the only individual known to have interacted with it. And almost every story has its own means for travel between universes. Twister used magic, I believe, with botched demon summonings involved, Douglas Sangnoir has his magegift, the cast of The Number of the Beast used...er, whatever-the-technique-was-called...and I can't think of ANY story that's used the caveat mentioned in Sailor Moon Expanded, involving travelers taking on traits from the universes they go to.

Yes, it's taken me more than a year to notice and respond to this query by Shay Guy...

Yes, interacting with the Event is unique to Twister's stories, but the "space" in which it resides shows up in several -- besides his own, of course. Fenris from "Wolf In Crisis" finds himself in a white void during his transition between universes, and actually spots Darlene and Ryoga's departure from the end of the BGC installment of TP. And every mention of the Void Between Worlds in DW is an explicit call out to TP -- Doug travels through it during his jumps between worlds, but he's unconscious during them so he never actually sees it. Legion's different in that he uses a tech device to directly transition from a point in one universe to a congruent point in another universe -- and even then he's often seen "travelling" in some unspecified medium before arriving. Presumably he's also in the Void. And since he uses the Burroughs drive from "Number of the Beast" that probably applies to them as well.

I'm not going to try to explain the adaptation thing from SME. Maybe it's something unique to folks from that timeline...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

It's a meta-law common to that particular cluster of universes, not necessarily applying once you get out further.

--Sam

"Could it be... A RUSE? A CLEVER RUSE?!"

[Bob Schroeck]

And Bob casts threadrez again...

Over the last week or two I've been reading DW2 from beginning to end -- for the first time, actually, can you believe it? I've read and reread parts of it, but never the whole thing like someone coming to it for the first time -- and I noticed as I did so at least two further world links suitable for mapping. One I can't remember, and will need to reread to rediscover. The other, though... Doug mentions during his "visit" with Quincy that Skysaber Conquers The Universe is going to be on TV that night. Even if he's joking about it, that means Doug has been exposed in either Warriors' World or the BGC world to a Skysaber story -- which means that the map needs at least an indirect link to the that ficton.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Shay Guy]

World, not Universe, but yeah. Funny that he brought it up in that scene -- when I read it and found out the relationship between Doug and Quincy, it struck me as an inversion of the Skysaber dynamic, like if one of those Skysaber TV shows had our world's Jared Ornstead as one arc's villain.

I actually wondered if you'd come up with it by adding "Skysaber + no privileged POV," but it looks like the relevant dates render that rather improbable.

---

Pronounced "shy guy."

[Bob Schroeck]

And yet another link I forgot about -- Doug learns about "The Heart of Darkest Chocolate" shop in Asgard (from Gregg "Metroanime" Sharp's The Bet) in one of the early chapters of DW5.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[trboturtle]

Just to point out that none of the links to diagrams explaining the relationships between fanfics are working....
Craig

[Bob Schroeck]

Ah, that's because most of them are years old, and anything linking to my site probably predates the move to my own domain. The most recent version of the big final master image is here.  And with luck that won't get embedded by Yuku's recent attempts at clever handling of URLs.

ETA:  And it doesn't.  Good.  I really should see about putting that in my images here on Yuku, though, and putting a thumbnail up so I'm not eating more bandwidth for my site than I need to.

ETA2:  Hm.  Let's try this:

<mess of link coding caused by forum migration in 2017 removed>

Well.  That was easy.   

ETA3:  But the image is rendered just a bit too small to be comfortably readable thanks to Yuku's size restrictions.  Use the link in the first paragraph.
 
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Star Ranger4]

Interestingly, Yuku is adding text where I dont think it should... so one gets:

http://drunkardswalkforums.yuku.com/rep ... sovers.jpg

where I needed to cut out everthing before the 'real' URL pointer to get it to work.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Bob Schroeck]

Odd and interesting. I don't get anything like that. I wonder why.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[classicdrogn]

I didn't realise this thread was so old until Bob specifically mentioned it, but back on the last page SHinDangaioh mentioned am HP/Tron cross - any ideas where that might be found? El Goog just turns up an FFn crossovers category with "Over 0 stories!" and various pages that happen to mention them...

And, here's a working link for that image:

http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/images/crossovers.jpg
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Disruptor]

ClassicDrogn wrote:

---

I didn't realise this thread was so old until Bob specifically mentioned it, but back on the last page SHinDangaioh mentioned am HP/Tron cross - any ideas where that might be found? El Goog just turns up an FFn crossovers category with "Over 0 stories!" and various pages that happen to mention them...

Yes.  On my computer.  I don't recall posting the HP/Tron xover anywhere.  I was going to post it to the Maximum Addventure, but that site went down.
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor

[robkelk]

I suspect Bob wouldn't mind if you posted it here... well, over in "Other People's Fanfiction," not here here.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

And threadrez again!

My latest little story, Ye Shall Not Die Alone, is technically a "Girls, Girls, Girls" nanoStep but is also an official, approved Teraverse story. So we have an entire new 'verse to pull into the mix.

Fnord, are you up to creating a new generation of the diagram/map?

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.