Active Franchise?

[Loki Laufeyjarson]

I have just discovered this board and am ovejoyed to hear that DW II is going to be continued soon.
I really liked the teasers and glimpses of the planned future steps, but I am a bit puzzled by the rule about 'active franchises' that prevents DW I or a future Sailormoon step from being published. Don't you consider A!MG or EVA to be active franchises? Last time I looked they had both still a Manga running.

[zojojojo]

I am a bit puzzled by the rule about 'active franchises' that prevents DW I or a future Sailormoon step from being published. Don't you consider A!MG or EVA to be active franchises? Last time I looked they had both still a Manga running.
EVA is done. It may not all have been released in the US, but everyone who cares to look knows how it ends (in a halucinagenic haze).
I don't know the official status of AMG, but I suspect it's the same, with less LSD
Sailor Moon, on the other hand, is apparenly still being produced...
DWI is a special case. The author has made certain requests about how any fanfiction based on her universe can be written and/pr distributed that makes completeing and publishing it legally unhealthy, kind of like cutting off your arm and jumping into shark-infested waters...
But I'm not Bob... he may have more (or less) to say on the matter...-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

[Bob Schroeck]

I won't write fanfic in active franchises out of respect for other authors -- it is entirely possible (and it has happened) for fanfic to damage the original work -- destroy the original author's ability to explore certain avenues. Mercedes Lackey (or her lawyers, or her agent, or any combination thereof) is so paranoid about this, that she forbids almost any electronic version of fanfic in her worlds -- even emailing is verboten. She grudgingly allows fanfic in paper 'zines, probably only because she came out of the fan tradition and she'd look like an absolute ogre and hypocrite if she turned on it that far.
While she has good reason to feel this way (a lawsuit by a fan author took part of Darkover away from Marian Zimmer Bradley), I think her (or her staff's) reactionary response is way over the top. Still, it is her right to dictate the terms under which fanfiction is allowable in her worlds. I just find those terms to be obscenely onerous and in fact actively hostile to the fan author. And since I cannot write DWI and abide by her terms, I won't be writing DWI.
Anyway, I got sidetracked into yet another rant about Lackey's position. But before I stop ranting , let me just say this: Misty, if for some reason you're reading this page, take it from one SFWA member to another, your terms are really over the top and excessive. You're completely within your rights, but sometimes you have to strike a balance between protecting what is yours and antagonizing your fans. Don't make the mistakes the RIAA is making.
Now, back to the question at hand.
As Zojojojo notes, Eva is done. Finished. Kaput. There will be no more official Eva material. Gainaz/Anno has finished with Eva and moved on to other projects. Therefore, fics set in the Eva world cannot affect the further output of "official" Eva material.
"Oh! My Goddess" is a good question. To the best of my knowledge it is also a dead franchise. If anyone can disabuse me of this, say by pointing me to new chapters in a manga (not a tankoubon or other collection, but in a weekly like Shonen Jump), then DW5 will go into "hold" mode until that changes.
American republication of the manga doesn't count for this purpose -- those are licensed reprints, not new material.
Does that help at all?

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Loki Laufeyjarson]

I was refering to the Manga versions of OMG and EVA. wich are still to the best of my knowledge being serialized in Afternoon and Shonen Ace. (They might have been canceled since the last time I brothered to check.)
One could argue, that the EVA Manga is just a slightly reworked adaption of the Anime with few things changed or added so far, so there is little new material added.
The A!MG Manga on the other hand is the orginal source that OVA's Movie and TV-series are based on and not as easily dismissed.

[Bob Schroeck]

The Eva manga isn't producing new material, is it? It's just retelling the existing story, as I understand it. So there's no risk there.
If, on the other hand, A!MG is still being created, then I'd best rethink doing DW5...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Rod.H]

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If, on the other hand, A!MG is still being created, then I'd best rethink doing DW5...

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Gah! No, no, don't. Please don't. The A!MG manga may still be in the process of being written & drawn by Fujishima, but there's a somewhat completed alt universe of it that exists.
What is this altverse you may wonder, why it's quite easy to work out. It is the OVA/Movie line they are for all intents and purposes complete, even with the odd japanese con-guest from the production houses implying that they might do a new one, one of these days.
Then again it took 'bout a decade before a new Tenchi Muyo OVA came into existance, so who knows what the future may hold in that regards.

--Rod.H

[Loki Laufeyjarson]

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The Eva manga isn't producing new material, is it? It's just retelling the existing story, as I understand it. So there's no risk there.

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Unless you consider a few added flashbacks and different perspectives to be new material. It is mostly the same story in a different media.

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If, on the other hand, A!MG is still being created, then I'd best rethink doing DW5...

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To the best of my knowledge A!MG is still going on, but don't stop on my account. I was looking forward to reading this encounter. It really should be interesting from judging by the teasers and hints I have seen in the forum. (Especially if Doug manages to keep his bike from DW-II. Finding out that Belldandy is a Goddess won't greatly faze any of K1 and Bell's friends compared to discovering this Bike. And Doug could even take some valuable lessons along the lines of 'Wyrd and the art of motorcycle maintainance' with him from this adventure.)

[Bob Schroeck]

If OMG is still live then it puts me in a bit of a dilemma. I really want to write DW5 -- not just because it'll be fun, but because it's important to the rest of the Walk in several key ways. Moreover, I've just made a deal with Christopher Angel to collaborate on it, and I can't just leave him high and dry.
Bleah. I hate this kind of a decision -- do I sacrifice the ethic or the project?

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[offsides]

Neither. Find out the facts, determine how you can satisfy both situations (esp. if there are multiple "branches" of the universe - just pick one that's not active), remember that by using the OMB universe you're already a step outside of continuity, and _then_ figure out if you can proceed or not.
Don't sacrifice anything out of hand, it doesn't do anyone any good.
My $0.02.
Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large

[Aleh]

Fully agreed.-------------------
I dove through the hailstorm of plasma and laser bolts, ignoring the instantly regenerating wounds I took from the occasional projectile, and focused on my target. Using my flame to sear through the reinforced window of Quincy's office, I plunged into the surprised executive's domain like a guided missile that, after using a small amount of flame to insure that the office's inhabitant wasn't an android double, promptly discharged its payload.
"WEDGIE!!"

[jpub]

1) Fujishima Kyousuke has said he has no issues with fanfiction. He has hefty issues with the porn manga that people do, but he still lets it go.
2) He wouldn't be basing it off of the manga, he'd be basing DW5 off of my OMB uni, which is in turn based off the defunct OAV universe.
I think Bob has no need to worry, but it's up to him.
I'm looking forward to working with him on this - it's actually prodded me to work on OMB 11.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
www.yggdrasil.org

[Loki Laufeyjarson]

If the main worry is about writing stuff in fanfiction similar to what the author might want to explore later himself, you should be relatively safe with the OMB universe. You might want to stay away from resolving the Keichi/Belldandy relationship, though, as this is something that I would expect the Manga to finish with.
Of course the main disadvantage of strictly using a modified OVA continuity would be that none of the newer charters and ideas from A!MG would appear. No Hild or Velsper, no Banpei-kun or Sigel, no Peorth or Rind, no Doublet system, no Angels, no parents and no Chihiro and jobs at Whirlpool motors.

[Rod.H]

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Of course the main disadvantage of strictly using a modified OVA continuity would be that none of the newer charters and ideas from A!MG would appear. No Hild or Velsper, no Banpei-kun or Sigel, no Peorth or Rind, no Doublet system, no Angels, no parents and no Chihiro and jobs at Whirlpool motors

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This is a thing I see tossed 'round the of OMG! group/discusion of I visit, it's quite posible to splice some of those ideas in to a OVA continuity if you take the Movie as being a part of the OVA line. There's arguments that it's either another seperate continuity based off the manga or a OVA continuation.
I'm of the view that as the OVA and Movie seem to have a set date zoneage, the Movie March/April 2001, three years or so after the arrival of Belldandy, the OVA gives us a Christmas/New Years 199x, so they're related. Any dates in the manga I've seen tend to drift to the 1992, 1994 end of the decade.

Another thing the OP to the OVAs implies that certain manga charcters exist in the OVA world, we're just yet to see 'em in action.
--Rod.H

[Logan Darklighter]

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I'm of the view that as the OVA and Movie seem to have a set date zoneage, the Movie March/April 2001, three years or so after the arrival of Belldandy, the OVA gives us a Christmas/New Years 199x, so they're related. Any dates in the manga I've seen tend to drift to the 1992, 1994 end of the decade.

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If the Movie is supposed to be acontnuation of the OVA then things must have happened very parallel to the Manga in the time in between for Chihiro or Peorth to make an appearance.
It would be rather hard to put all this stuff into a future DW step that is supposed to be based on OMB. Chris Angel's work clearly diverges from the canon timeline after the OVA or early Manga, so that neither the events of the Movie or the later Manga could have happened. With all the Gods in OMB patterned so directly after myths, charcters like Celestine, Peorth, Hild and Vesper would not really fit in.
I don't recall any mentioning of dates offhand, but I think that the Manga is somehow always supposed to be set in the present. That means that Keichi's first meeting would have happened back in '89 and his current adventure is set in 2003. I guees time passes slower in the A!MG world. It does pass and characters do grow older in the Manga just not very fast.
The reason, you might feel that the manga is set in the nineties, could be that you mostly have seen some of the older Manga. The OVA and the Movie appear to be just taking their cue from the time period of the Manga-era they are based on.

[jpub]

I think I'll take a page from Gryphon's book:
Don't examine this too closely.

Wait, that annoys the heck out of me.
Okay, here's the scoop: Fujishima Kyousuke seems to have played fast and loose with the Norse mythology. OMB sticks to it (and the original Nordic Eddas) a lot more closely.
As for manga characters, don't worry about it too much. I'll deal with that somewhat in OMB 11.

[Rod.H]

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I don't recall any mentioning of dates offhand, but I think that the Manga is somehow always supposed to be set in the present. That means that Keichi's first meeting would have happened back in '89 and his current adventure is set in 2003. I guees time passes slower in the A!MG world. It does pass and characters do grow older in the Manga just not very fast.

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Nope the current manga that I've got (DH OMG #100-101) implies that it's still set somewhere in the mid nineties, this is going on the odd calender sighting, tech & clothing. It's noticble when it's part of the storyline i.e. Skuld's going hot for leather to a computer hardware shop that having a 'closing for renovations' sale and the flyer lists '64 MB 72 pin RAM 1/2 off' as the big ticket item and the NIT professor into AI's & trying to make a humanoid bot being completely amazed by Banpei & Sigel, a historical note had to be added to say it occurs before Honda came out with Asimo.
And yes Fujishima has played fast and loose with the mythologies, even his version changes over time.
Bob, doesn't have to stick exactly to canon with this as there is usualy someone out there that's written a variation of a theme that's enough to get his ideas rolling and there's usualy someone willing to let him into the sandbox to play with some ideas too.

The fact I'm getting reminded of the 'Three blind men & the Elephant' at the moment is saying something 'bout individual interpretation. We don't know what's gonna happen till it happens and I'll end & paraphase with: "Bring it on!"
--Rod.H

[Bob Schroeck]

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I think Bob has no need to worry, but it's up to him.

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Well, after this and your email, I suppose I don't. If Fujishima has okayed fanfiction, then I'm cool with going ahead -- that's different.

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I'm looking forward to working with him on this - it's actually prodded me to work on OMB 11.

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Oh, very cool. And I'm looking forward to our collaboration as well; it's going to be fun bouncing Doug and Paradox off of each other...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

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Of course the main disadvantage of strictly using a modified OVA continuity would be that none of the newer charters and ideas from A!MG would appear. No ... Banpei-kun

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Well, Banpei can be said to be found in the TV series, but only on a technicality; as I recall he appears (like Marller) in the opening credits without ever actually showing up in the show proper.
Banpei is not necessary for my story (I guess I should start saying "our story" now...), but it would be nice to have him. The others (except maybe Peorth) I don't know well enough to have an opinion one way or another.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

---

Don't examine this too closely.

Wait, that annoys the heck out of me.

---

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As for manga characters, don't worry about it too much. I'll deal with that somewhat in OMB 11.

---

And since DW5 is going to take place an as-yet unspecified (but not too great) amount of time after OMB 11, Chris's developments and explanations will no doubt influence DW5, too.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

...Should be transplanted to the DW5 forum. In fact, I shoulda done that myself with my own answers. Bad Bob! No Biscuit!

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Jeanne Hedge]

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I won't write fanfic in active franchises out of respect for other authors

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Does this mean a Buffy step is still not an option under this rule because Angel still survives? Or is that taking your intent a bit too far...
Jeanne

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Jeanne Hedge
www.jhedge.com
go.compuserve.com/Comic

Jeanne Hedge
www.jhedge.com

"Believe me, if I have to go the rest of my life without companionship, knowing myself won't be a problem."
-- Gabrielle of Potadeia

[Bob Schroeck]

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Does this mean a Buffy step is still not an option under this rule because Angel still survives? Or is that taking your intent a bit too far...

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I honestly am not sure yet on that one. I've been thinking about it for a while, and have come to no clear conclusion yet.


-- Bob
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"Flan on!" -- The battlecry of the Human Dessert

[Ace Dreamer]

> > Does this mean a Buffy step is still not an option under this
> > rule because Angel still survives? Or is that taking your intent
> > a bit too far...
>
> I honestly am not sure yet on that one. I've been thinking
> about it for a while, and have come to no clear conclusion
Given how both the latest Buffy and Angel season end, you could in theory continue either series ("Slayer, the New Adventures", pick A.N.Other previously just potential Slayer, "Slayer College, Year One", is pretty obvious), though Angel looks as though the heroes have fallen, though none actually died. (Anya could have lived, as well, given her previous teleport abilities, or other mystical sleight-of-hand).
I would say it looks very much as though both series, as we knew them, are pretty dead.
YMMV
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

It's positively silly to apply the Active Franchise Rule to any anime or manga series, current or not.
Why? Because by and large, the Japanese authors and artists--and to a certain extent even their publishing companies--do not care about doujinshi and other fan works. In many cases, they read the stuff (Naoko Takeuchi has openly stated she enjoys Sailor Moon doujin, tho' I suspect she's not talking about the porno) or even participate in it themselves (Johji "Outlanders etc." Manabe has done at least one startlingly ecchi Dirty Pair manga).
There are whole conventions devoted to doujinshi in Japan, and do you see the cops or lawyers raising a fuss?
Do what y'like with OMG!, Bob. No one'll complain.
--Sam Ashley
"Egad! Too much anatomy!"

[nemonowan]

Hi,
> Naoko Takeuchi has openly stated she enjoys Sailor
> Moon doujin, tho' I suspect she's not talking about
> the porno
IIRC, she specifically mentioned 'ecchi' doujinshi, and asked creators to send her copies. That lady is no prude, I tell you.
NN