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Retropunk Mechanics!
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So, assuming mildly rubber science but barring outright magic, or the intervention of the luminiferous aether, what do you think would be the earliest tech level that could produce an interesting walker-type mecha?
Ja, -n =============================================== "I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."
Steam.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic The Works of Christopher Angel "Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"
So, Science! instead of science?
Early industrial period, somewhen after the first large steam engine. Once you get those massive iron mechanics moving the imagination fairly bubbles. I suppose, if you really wanted to push it, you could pull in the classical greeks. People like Heron and Archimedes could do astounding things. Possibly and animated statue of Zues for a temple gets used to smash an invading fleet? Hmm, that sounds really cool. 
coughcough Colossus of Rhodes cough
- CD -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
I dunno... Our man Da Vinci and a few of his contemporaries could have done some *really* interesting things with rubber science, depending on how rubber and in what ways. The major trouble would have been a power source, obviously, but that really comes down to exactly how much handwaving we're allowed to *do*. On the other side, it's worth considering the Chinese, who had some interesting things going a *while* back, that could have gotten that much more interesting with stretchy science.
Regarding Chinese gadgetry, 's been a while since I studied Ancient Chinese History...
But the Qin and Han Dynasties are regarded as China's Golden Age in terms of technology and culture. The Qin period was 221-206 BC, and the Han after that. I vaguely recall the Emperor Qin Shihuangdi having something like...a giant scale metal model of China. Or something. With complex mechanical bits. Flowing mini-rivers of mercury, that kind of thing. Then there's the Han Dynasty scientist Zhang Heng, who invented the world's first seismograph. Well, seismoscope, to be technical, but it was an incredibly cool piece of machinery. Hey, y'gotta love a scientific device that involves little balls and metal frogs. Yeap. Frogs. I think the Han also had some kinda clever large-scale apparatus to facilitate salt-mining, tho I forget the details. Don't know much about earlier periods of China. Historical records are pretty clear up to around 2000-ish BC, but I've never seriously studied their tech level. I can vaguely describe what their art and money looked like, but tech? Sorry. But the Qin and Han Dynasties, yeah I can picture them doing mecha, although in typical Chinese fashion, it'd probably be incredibly ornate with lots of textured fiddly bits, and have a sorta stylized animal motif going. It should be noted...while I've never actually seen any comic book or movie use the conceit of...well, ancient Chinese walker mecha... I've seen a fair bit of period drama that's utilized giant Chinese war machines. Some of those things might be considered mecha in the broader sense of the term. Not humanoid or even on-legs, tho. I'm talking mobile forts and vehicle-type things. But the idea that the Golden Age dynasties could do that kinda craziness, well, it seems well-accepted. I still don't know what you'd do for a power source, however. A wheeled fortress can be driven by, say, a bunch of horses on treadmill-like things, or, hell, human soldiers. That's what I've seen used in Chinese fiction thus far, for that kinda thing. But that's not going to work for a walking mecha, so I don't know. I do think that rubberised Chinese tech is up to the challenge of making it mechanically possible...and certainly, of, y'know, balancing a robot enough to keep it from falling over. But motive force? Y'got me. -- Acyl
As a side note, though I have absolutely zero basis to argue for it, and it makes no technological sense at all...
I'm quietly sniggering at the notion of Egyptian Mecha. Or, hell, Proto-Dravidian Mecha from the Indus Valley... -- Acyl  Quote:That was supposed to be in his rather hugish tomb. Which has been found, although not opened/excavated yet. Ground radar scans, though, have detected the mercury, according to some articles from 2002 that I found with Google and Wikipedia. Oh, and this is the same guy who set up the terracotta soldiers. -- Bob --------- Visit beautiful Boston, proud successor to Seattle as "City Most Scared Of Its Own Shadow
I demand clockwork walkers powered by hamsters in treadwheels.
D for Drakensis You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.
What, for tabletop battles?
-- Bob --------- Visit beautiful Boston, proud successor to Seattle as "City Most Scared Of Its Own Shadow  Quote:not if we're talking "Big Ben" scale clockworks. I vaguely remember an article in Dragon (or Dungeon?) magazine which had as an example a 40' artifact armed with a large club, and "self" loading catapult, powered by multi-ton clock weights...
Hmmm. I'm having images of a Mayan solar-powered flying machine.... oh, wait... --
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered... R! DOROTHY! WAYNERIGHT! -- Sucrose Octanitrate. Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode. Quote:Powered by hamsters? Must be frickin' huge hamsters. -- Bob --------- Visit beautiful Boston, proud successor to Seattle as "City Most Scared Of Its Own Shadow Quote:The only way I can see around this is in a Rubbertech universe, one ran by the rules of Science!!, you can open two portals to the Universe Composed Entirely Of Hamsters, one entry to it at the bottom of a treadmill, and one exit from it at the top, and just tap the energy of an infinite stream of incredibly cute rodents. now, the Giant Hamster has its uses. Consult Melonpool, they use one to power a starship. (for suitable values of 'rubber' indeed!)Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
I have but two things to note:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gia...ce_Hamster oracle.wizards.com/script...&D=1&P=706 Why yes, I am a big fat scary geek. And a die hard Spelljammer fan, among my other qualifications for the title. - CD -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Ancient greece had basic steam engines (Heronas), the idea of giant mecha (Talos), and basic mashienery to do things like open temple doors automatically. The greek also had pumps so hydralis should be within their grasp, but most ancient robots would relly on manpower for motive power, so making one of (expensive) metal would be unlikely. Wood is much more likely as a construction material and by strength to wieght some hardwoods would be stronger than most metals.
Still any realistic bipedal robot will need to keep it's balance somehow, which requiers either a mechanical omputer which is heavy or a brain of some kind. Trained hamsters maybe? E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?" B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
And the Ancient Greeks had good clockwork computers, if the Antikythera mechanism is any indication.
-- Bob --------- Visit beautiful Boston, proud successor to Seattle as "City Most Scared Of Its Own Shadow
mmmm, insane clockwork AI.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
Quote:Lighter than Air Craft? for Mayan purposes it would be solar/slave powered If any one could build a solar powered Air Ship it would be the Mayans. Imagine what that would do to Cortez's mind when he sees the Imperial Temple to the Sun, floating over head. ![[Image: eek.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eek.gif)
Quote: A ten story,water powered Differential Engine made out of stone. Quote:Beware of system crashes, because they will register on the Richter scale, and require extensive effort before rebooting. -- Bob --------- Visit beautiful Boston, proud successor to Seattle as "City Most Scared Of Its Own Shadow
Upgrade to the new 66 Megalith model! Twice as fast. Twice as powerful. Twice as big.
Of course, as the wikipedia on that Greek device notes, the Muslim World also had a technological flowering that might have supported mecha at some point.
And it's an idea for a Silly Story! So, you start with your average, run-of-the-mill Bored Godling plot device. Said godling decides that it would be really interesting to see what sorts of mecha might appear at each period, given a couple of points of inspiration in the right brains and an appropriate rubberizing of physics. He takes a bunch of parallel worlds, and does the neccessary things to start the mecha revolution in different times and places. Then, just for fun, he grabs one representative mecha out of each appropriate time and sets them in a tournament against each other, with an appropriately improbable prize. There are, of course, better and less cliched ways to write this particular story, but I don't currently have the spare cycles to come up with them.
Heh, I don't think you'd _want_ a more appropriate way to do that, this is gonna be fun and _silly_!
I think the Trojan entry, HRS-E, would be a _very_ strong contender...Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979 Quote:Hmm... a forty foot tall AT-AT made of wood. Probably powered by what looks like a ten foot diameter hampster wheel. I'll see that and raise you a squad(ron?) of Aztec warriors in ten foot Ironwood & Jade combat suits powered by giant latex bands wound by and soaked in the blood of Sacrificial Virgin Female Slaves. The JGW-R gods must be appeased... ![[Image: devil.gif]](http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/devil.gif)
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