ECSNorway Wrote:My issue with GURPS is that it makes a LOT of basic assumptions about how things work in the game world that are actually anything but one-size-fits-all. For example, take the magic system. A specific list of schools of magic and specific spells in each? If you're presenting for one specific world, sure. If you want to do something in a world with different laws of magic? Hell no. It'd be like trying to build Belgarion in d20. You just can't do it.
The vehicle rules are not only incredibly math-heavy (you need a spreadsheet and multiple cube roots), but make basic assumptions on things like engine weight and fuel efficiency, mass of components, types of components available. Again, if you're building for a specific world, that's fine, but for a game marketed as Generic Universal Role-Playing System? F**K no.
Realize first off that I'm basically working off what you wrote above and a generic Grognard Lore skill check, but this sounds like an example of inconsistent game design between supplements (likely written by entirely different people for different ends) rather than a failing of the system as a whole - which is, indeed, something that would be sent back for revision and normalization in a perfect world by the Gods of Continuity Edit. Given the choice I usually go for more crunch, myself, so the revelation that GURPS Magic is based on a "pick a list, then pick from the list" system is indeed a setback, but honestly it's hard to quantify a really flexible magic system under a point-buy model beyond "I buy Magic for 50 points, so I can cast a spell with any effect the GM agrees is no more powerful than other 50pt advantages." You can then provide a list of examples at various price points, but that's basically just back to the lists method. One possibility is dropping a separate magic sourcebook entirely, and instead using a "Must be cast as spell" limitation on superpowers, with some extra notes and/or rules on how many spells you can know or have ready to cast or whatever at once and how long to switch them out or invent a new one. This is how Champions 4th and BESM do it, and I'm honestly shocked that GURPS doesn't follow this model given the premise of being generic and universal.
Aside: I'd just like to express my intense dissappointment that Champions Online uses the list of lists method for building powers, and in the form of what amounts to a level/class system for free play at that, rather than the PnP version point buy. Why even call it Champions at that point? I read that page in the Game Guide and just closed the browser window in disgust.
I can't speak to GURPS Vehicles, as all I know of it is its reputation as mind-bendingly complex.
Quote:GURPS is neither Generic nor Universal, it is an amalgamation of a hundred specific worlds with a separate rulebook for each. GURPS Fantasy is not a generic fantasy supplement, it is a worldbook for RP'ing in the "GURPS Fantasy" 'verse and caters to that world's methodology only.
... isn't being an amalgamation of a hundred different worlds pretty much the definition of generic and universal? Well, maybe not quite the latter, since there will lways be something that's just not feasible in any ruleset, but it seems like a pretty good stab at trying.
Quote:It's not for me. Suggesting a game using GURPS is in fact an active turnoff for me. If John Biles invited me to a GURPS Sailor Moon game, I'd have to think twice about it.
Of course! Nothing is going to please everyone, and wouldn't things be dull if they did? Out of curiosity, what systems do you like for gaming?
Given how very derailed this thread has gotten from fanart (and I'm probably the worst offender in that respect) perhaps it should be moved to General Chatter? Unless doing so is a hassle, of course.
- CD
Edits mainly to fix quoteboxes
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