All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XIV

[robkelk]

Nevertheless, I'm considering it.  Here's what I emailed him:

Thanks for your email.

I'm still thinking about unbanning you, or at least reducing the duration from "eternity" to something more reasonable.  But consider writ of certiorari granted.

But the last time we spoke ( https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User_talk:Labster ), I asked you to try not making things worse.  Yet here we are, again.  Did you read HPMoR like I asked?  I had a very specific reason to mention that fic -- first, it's free, so no excuse for not reading it.  Second, one of the main things that Professor Quirrell teaches rationalist!Harry in that book is how to lose.

And that's what I think is missing from you: you don't know how to lose.  You don't know when to lose.  I can't explain it as well as the book does, but when you start to get into a situation where you won't win, you need to get out of that situation fast.  Don't dig yourself in deeper; just fail when it doesn't cost you much.  You could have tried to be accommodating back when people first had issues with some of the deletions and new user bans.  But instead you've managed to turn a moderator rights into a ban, and you're trying to convince me to overrule every member of the wiki staff because they're all treating you unfairly.

Really?  That's the argument you're going with?

You and all of the mods have said stupid things in this mess, but your strategy seems to be to keep pushing people's buttons until they agree with you.  And then once they react poorly, holding it up as evidence you've been mistreated.  Instead, well, you could have just agreed to a little change in behavior, a small loss, back at the beginning of this.  Or in the middle of this.  Or at any time before the permaban.  Before your post where you say, and I paraphrase, "fuck all y'all, I'm leaving."  But you obviously didn't want to leave, or you wouldn't have emailed me.

So yeah, of course GethN7 overreacted with the permaban.  But I can't blame him.  When you work with people, you need to find common ground.  You can't win every time.  You try to compromise, and occasionally have to lose and accept your loss.  If you can't do that, you can't be part of the community.  Being accepting of group decisions is a fundamental requirement of belonging to any community, and if you can't do that, then there's really no point in removing the ban.

Now if you can learn to accept group decisions, we have something to talk about.  I can and will overrule everyone else here, and they'll abide by it.  But understand this: in trying to win your argument, you've burned every single bridge, save one.  This is your last appeal.

So take some time, and think about what you're going to do next.  If you choose to be part of the community, I would begin with an apology.

He might not be able to learn how to lose, at least, not in this situation. How much of his self-image does he have tied up in that trope?

And DocColress has been very good at apologizing: he's apologized to me at least twice, immediately after another mod told him to and immediately before showing he'd learned nothing from the circumstances leading to him being told to apologize. He seems incapable of understanding what an apology is beyond the form of the words, let alone what an apology means. I would be happy - and surprised - to be proven wrong here.

I'm personally willing to reconsider the permablock in a few months at least, assuming he keeps his nose clean and stays out of further trouble. I admit I was a bit brutal with the permablock, but this nonsense needed to stop.

Once all the raw feelings have died down and we've all adjusted to the changes, I'm not unwilling to reconsider the length, but for now, I believe a harsh lesson is the best reminder, based on what we've dealt with prior.

Judging from the comments posted in this thread and on the wiki, the only one of the moderation team who is not at or past the end of his or her patience with this situation is Labster.

We all need a time-out. Including Doc.

However, we need to show that we're serious about accepting the will of the majority. No matter how the vote goes, we need to implement the decision: if we're getting rid of the examples, then we need to do it immediately (after making a backup of the pages); if we aren't, then we need to implement the previously-reached consensus and make CM a subpage type. Status quo is no longer an option.

Well, he's already replied to me.  Twice.  Not a good sign, since every time I talk to him I tell him to slow down and think.

I'm feeling like unless he has an epiphany of empathy a one month ban is not long enough.  The second email is kind of a rambly one where he goes into how Complete Monster is perfectly clear and it's not his fault that everyone else can't understand it.  He should get a job on Boeing's legal team.

I'm guessing here: was the first reply an apology? If it was, then he's showing the same pattern of behaviour that he showed toward me earlier.