RE: I Think It's Time I Walked Quietly Away from TVTropes
06-05-2012, 10:05 PM (This post was last modified: 10-20-2017, 10:29 AM by Bob Schroeck.)
06-05-2012, 10:05 PM (This post was last modified: 10-20-2017, 10:29 AM by Bob Schroeck.)
I read this page, trying to understand the objections:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwik...7puhulc24sje&page=37
My rebuttals are in italics
When challenged on the point of censorship, moderator Fighteer says:
"Also, I challenge whether we are engaging in censorship. We've decided that we don't want certain types of content on the wiki, but we aren't preventing people from seeing that content. We just don't want to be a part of it."
You decided you don't want certain types of content on the wiki, yet you don't ban people from seeing it.
Logicale ne c'est pas. Those two statements contradict and invalidate each other.
Besides, we both know you have no power outside TV Tropes, so saying you don't is just insulting our intelligence.
Finally, if you don't like certain content, then DON'T join in troping or cataloging it. If you have no plans to bar people from seeing certain things, why do this?
Also, removal of content due to a change in your site policy is censorship. Censorship is the removal or toning down of content due to content deemed objectionable by the censors, which what is being done qualifies as.
That is not provocative, it's objective fact.
Now, later down the page is moderator Deadbeatloser 22's comments:
"I'm not entirely sure you're grasping what Tropes Are Not Bad means. It doesn't mean that some tropes can have positive connotations despite being negative on paper. It means their use doesn't ruin a work. You also described them as Moral Guardians, implying it's a group that has taken it upon themselves to force their views on others."
Yes, they ARE Moral Guardians. If they don't want to see what they consider perversion, pornography and pedophilia (real or perceived), ban it's presence and tell everyone to like it or leave, that is imposition of their views on others regardless of their consent.
Yes, you have that power, but when the views of another are imposed against the will of the majority, especially on issues directly connected to morally charged subjects, THAT IS MORAL GUARDIANSHIP.
And now, let's address moderator lu 127's objections to the usage of Censorship Bureau to describe the P5.
"Also, the P5 are real people in this very wiki. Do you really think applying such tropes to them is appropriate? That's almost a Stealth Insult against other tropers."
Again, they are passing judgment on what is considered perverse, pornographic, or pedophilic, with the quasi-legal consent of the body that governs the website and sets the rules and guidelines.
The P5 are an adjunct body elected by said website administrators to perform the task of censoring this content on the behalf of the legitimate website authority, with their support and consent, much like how the FCC answers to the executive branch of the American government.
In short, calling them a Censorship Bureau is no insult, it is again objective fact, and the P5 being real people only makes that point even more valid.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwik...7puhulc24sje&page=37
My rebuttals are in italics
When challenged on the point of censorship, moderator Fighteer says:
"Also, I challenge whether we are engaging in censorship. We've decided that we don't want certain types of content on the wiki, but we aren't preventing people from seeing that content. We just don't want to be a part of it."
You decided you don't want certain types of content on the wiki, yet you don't ban people from seeing it.
Logicale ne c'est pas. Those two statements contradict and invalidate each other.
Besides, we both know you have no power outside TV Tropes, so saying you don't is just insulting our intelligence.
Finally, if you don't like certain content, then DON'T join in troping or cataloging it. If you have no plans to bar people from seeing certain things, why do this?
Also, removal of content due to a change in your site policy is censorship. Censorship is the removal or toning down of content due to content deemed objectionable by the censors, which what is being done qualifies as.
That is not provocative, it's objective fact.
Now, later down the page is moderator Deadbeatloser 22's comments:
"I'm not entirely sure you're grasping what Tropes Are Not Bad means. It doesn't mean that some tropes can have positive connotations despite being negative on paper. It means their use doesn't ruin a work. You also described them as Moral Guardians, implying it's a group that has taken it upon themselves to force their views on others."
Yes, they ARE Moral Guardians. If they don't want to see what they consider perversion, pornography and pedophilia (real or perceived), ban it's presence and tell everyone to like it or leave, that is imposition of their views on others regardless of their consent.
Yes, you have that power, but when the views of another are imposed against the will of the majority, especially on issues directly connected to morally charged subjects, THAT IS MORAL GUARDIANSHIP.
And now, let's address moderator lu 127's objections to the usage of Censorship Bureau to describe the P5.
"Also, the P5 are real people in this very wiki. Do you really think applying such tropes to them is appropriate? That's almost a Stealth Insult against other tropers."
Again, they are passing judgment on what is considered perverse, pornographic, or pedophilic, with the quasi-legal consent of the body that governs the website and sets the rules and guidelines.
The P5 are an adjunct body elected by said website administrators to perform the task of censoring this content on the behalf of the legitimate website authority, with their support and consent, much like how the FCC answers to the executive branch of the American government.
In short, calling them a Censorship Bureau is no insult, it is again objective fact, and the P5 being real people only makes that point even more valid.