... I do intend to respond to Murmur. It's just that, well, I find his posts a bit disconcerting, almost intimidating, and that throws me off my stride when it comes to how to address them.
[Not sure if that's a bad thing or not. I certainly don't mean to be "disconcerting" or "intimidating", but I don't think that criticism in its positive sense (which I hope I've been, and if I have not I shall promptly shut up) is neccessarily bad. As for throwing you off your stride . . . not quite sure how to respond to that.
If I can make a quick point, the story's not about the violence. Doug might be able to kick the Sabers' collective butt, or vice versa. That's not the point of the story.
[Um. How to say this without coming off as a stubborn, willfully ignorant jackass (which I *am*, but that doesn't mean I want to advertise as such) . . . If the violence isn't the point, why is there so much of it? I mean, yes, granted violence is rarely simply about the violence, but it's saying *something*, either allegorically or symbollically. My impression is that by winning, Doug's position is being reinforced. You know: trial by combat. If this is not the case, then why the consistent wins and the showcasing, as it were, of such?]
The whole intent of chapter 12 -- besides giving me an opportunity to write a really cool fight scene (I must admit)
[While I *love* crossovers, I am always reminded of Mike Carey's comments on having Lucifer and John Constantine crossing over: it will always undermines one, and thus be unsatisfying.]
, and to give the readers a glance at some of the Warriors in action -- was to a) provide a penultimate point to Nene's arc
[Nene had an ARC? Okay, that totally blew past me. I guess I haven't been paying enough attention, darn it.]
, b) similarly move Linna into play as the conscience of the Sabers,
[While, yes, I can see it, Linna makes for a pretty funny conscience. "No money? NO MONEY? B-but . . *sputter, sputter*. I'm exaggerating but still. She can, as the saying goes, trust her with your life, just not your money.]
c) set up Sylia in a situation where she has to make a conscious decision about the purpose of the Sabers rather than just run on automatic
[Though I can't really prove it, I've always seen Sylia as having a grand MASTER PLAN. It's slow, subtle, but devastating. I like to think of her sitting in a darkened room, stroking a white cat and having a good maniacal laugh to herself.]
, and d) most importantly, show the ultimate futility of fighting it out in the streets.
[Oh. Well . . .]
Sure, Doug technically kicked the Sabers' butts. What did it get him? Nothing.
[Surely he must have enjoyed it a little? C'mon, admit it, he enjoyed unleashing that ol' rightous fury, going old testament on the knight sabers, right? Just a little? C'mon.]
It lost him important resources: Sylia will refuse to yank his fat out of the fire now, should he need it, because that would be "interfering with one of his operations".
[And you can see Priss smirking while Sylia deadpanns this, because Priss is not a nice person. She's a good person, just not nice.]
Leon, who was just beginning to trust and like him, is going to be hostile again.
[And a hostile Leon will not flirt with you, making the world a sadder place. Daley will flirt with you, but that's because Daley's a much nicer person.]
The only person he hasn't alienated is Lisa.
[Yeah, how's her arc coming along?]
Oh, and after what Hexe told him, he's not going to want to pull out simulacra to save his own butt in the future. Like the Sabers' own operations, it's futile, in the big picture; at best it acts as a brake on the worst offenders.
[I guess . . . can't really comment, here.]
The whole point of chapter 12 was to show that fighting -- boomers, the Sabers, anyone -- in the street is futile, inasfar as a strategy for Doug is concerned. It doesn't matter how much stronger he is than them, if he is at all -- it's pointless because it's only dealing with a symptom, not the cause.
[That's pretty radical thinking there. Of course, treating the symptoms does work sometimes. But there wasn't, as far as I could see, that one moment where he realizes the futility of street fighting. You know, that one Charlton Heston on Planet of the Apes, seeing the Statue of Liberty, You maniacs moment. You know?]
And as a further point, Doug's vaunted power has a limit, and that's range. Most of his power effects won't go past about 33 meters.
[I can only plead ignorance on that part. To me, he seems pretty darn invincible. And given how fricking mobile and FAST (superluminal? That's fast. That's faster than fast.) how anything could be out of his range is quite hard to believe.]
A few things will reach the length of a football field. Madigan's teams could have killed him without a second thought at any point in the story, if that were their goal, from further away than tnat.
[Oh, well, I guess if you hit him with an orbital laser platform or a really long shot . . . but that's not very dramatic, is it? I'm reminded that it took a couple nukes to take out Twister, and even then it only got a couple of his limbs. And he grew them back. Ah, well, let me mull this over and get back to you.]
So could have the Sabers, if they were so inclined. Doug's only powerful close up. That's why he supplements his field with armor, because people can and have tried to take him out at a distance.
[Priss probably does fantasize a little about sniping Doug with her railgun.]
Huh. This turned out longer than I thought. If that satisfies you, Murmur, let me know. If not, I can continue.
-- Bob
[satisfy? I guess . . . I still think that Doug needs a bit more "believable" conflict, some more defeats that aren't so emotional, to make this a better work. As it is, it's too damn easy for him. But thanks for the response.]
-murmur the fallen
Doug and Howard the Duck: trapped on worlds they never made.
[Not sure if that's a bad thing or not. I certainly don't mean to be "disconcerting" or "intimidating", but I don't think that criticism in its positive sense (which I hope I've been, and if I have not I shall promptly shut up) is neccessarily bad. As for throwing you off your stride . . . not quite sure how to respond to that.
If I can make a quick point, the story's not about the violence. Doug might be able to kick the Sabers' collective butt, or vice versa. That's not the point of the story.
[Um. How to say this without coming off as a stubborn, willfully ignorant jackass (which I *am*, but that doesn't mean I want to advertise as such) . . . If the violence isn't the point, why is there so much of it? I mean, yes, granted violence is rarely simply about the violence, but it's saying *something*, either allegorically or symbollically. My impression is that by winning, Doug's position is being reinforced. You know: trial by combat. If this is not the case, then why the consistent wins and the showcasing, as it were, of such?]
The whole intent of chapter 12 -- besides giving me an opportunity to write a really cool fight scene (I must admit)
[While I *love* crossovers, I am always reminded of Mike Carey's comments on having Lucifer and John Constantine crossing over: it will always undermines one, and thus be unsatisfying.]
, and to give the readers a glance at some of the Warriors in action -- was to a) provide a penultimate point to Nene's arc
[Nene had an ARC? Okay, that totally blew past me. I guess I haven't been paying enough attention, darn it.]
, b) similarly move Linna into play as the conscience of the Sabers,
[While, yes, I can see it, Linna makes for a pretty funny conscience. "No money? NO MONEY? B-but . . *sputter, sputter*. I'm exaggerating but still. She can, as the saying goes, trust her with your life, just not your money.]
c) set up Sylia in a situation where she has to make a conscious decision about the purpose of the Sabers rather than just run on automatic
[Though I can't really prove it, I've always seen Sylia as having a grand MASTER PLAN. It's slow, subtle, but devastating. I like to think of her sitting in a darkened room, stroking a white cat and having a good maniacal laugh to herself.]
, and d) most importantly, show the ultimate futility of fighting it out in the streets.
[Oh. Well . . .]
Sure, Doug technically kicked the Sabers' butts. What did it get him? Nothing.
[Surely he must have enjoyed it a little? C'mon, admit it, he enjoyed unleashing that ol' rightous fury, going old testament on the knight sabers, right? Just a little? C'mon.]
It lost him important resources: Sylia will refuse to yank his fat out of the fire now, should he need it, because that would be "interfering with one of his operations".
[And you can see Priss smirking while Sylia deadpanns this, because Priss is not a nice person. She's a good person, just not nice.]
Leon, who was just beginning to trust and like him, is going to be hostile again.
[And a hostile Leon will not flirt with you, making the world a sadder place. Daley will flirt with you, but that's because Daley's a much nicer person.]
The only person he hasn't alienated is Lisa.
[Yeah, how's her arc coming along?]
Oh, and after what Hexe told him, he's not going to want to pull out simulacra to save his own butt in the future. Like the Sabers' own operations, it's futile, in the big picture; at best it acts as a brake on the worst offenders.
[I guess . . . can't really comment, here.]
The whole point of chapter 12 was to show that fighting -- boomers, the Sabers, anyone -- in the street is futile, inasfar as a strategy for Doug is concerned. It doesn't matter how much stronger he is than them, if he is at all -- it's pointless because it's only dealing with a symptom, not the cause.
[That's pretty radical thinking there. Of course, treating the symptoms does work sometimes. But there wasn't, as far as I could see, that one moment where he realizes the futility of street fighting. You know, that one Charlton Heston on Planet of the Apes, seeing the Statue of Liberty, You maniacs moment. You know?]
And as a further point, Doug's vaunted power has a limit, and that's range. Most of his power effects won't go past about 33 meters.
[I can only plead ignorance on that part. To me, he seems pretty darn invincible. And given how fricking mobile and FAST (superluminal? That's fast. That's faster than fast.) how anything could be out of his range is quite hard to believe.]
A few things will reach the length of a football field. Madigan's teams could have killed him without a second thought at any point in the story, if that were their goal, from further away than tnat.
[Oh, well, I guess if you hit him with an orbital laser platform or a really long shot . . . but that's not very dramatic, is it? I'm reminded that it took a couple nukes to take out Twister, and even then it only got a couple of his limbs. And he grew them back. Ah, well, let me mull this over and get back to you.]
So could have the Sabers, if they were so inclined. Doug's only powerful close up. That's why he supplements his field with armor, because people can and have tried to take him out at a distance.
[Priss probably does fantasize a little about sniping Doug with her railgun.]
Huh. This turned out longer than I thought. If that satisfies you, Murmur, let me know. If not, I can continue.
-- Bob
[satisfy? I guess . . . I still think that Doug needs a bit more "believable" conflict, some more defeats that aren't so emotional, to make this a better work. As it is, it's too damn easy for him. But thanks for the response.]
-murmur the fallen
Doug and Howard the Duck: trapped on worlds they never made.