No, I'm not objecting to the criticism. It's just that you're coming from an angle that makes me doubt whether I've accomplished what I set out to do.
[as I have absolutely no idea what your goals are other than, you know, the usual telling of a good story, i can't really answer that. As for telling a good story, you've accomplished that from my point of view, despite the many nagging nitpicks i've posted here and which you should probably ignore.]
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If the violence isn't the point, why is there so much of it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Josh said, because it's BGC and to an extent that's the nature of the beast. MegaTokyo is a violent place, whether or not Doug is there.
[Yeah, you're right there. Sylia should make a new rule: "Do not make friends outside of the Knight Sabers. They will die in as ironic a way possible.]
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Nene had an ARC?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, she does. At the risk of saying too much, she's intentionally emblematic of a number of things going on in the story at several different levels. And before anyone asks, yes, there are deliberate parallels and echoes between the aftermaths of the Nene-Maggie and Doug-Nene conflicts.
[Uh . . . okay. Gonna really have to re-read everything . . .]
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While, yes, I can see it, Linna makes for a pretty funny conscience.
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What's so funny about it? She's the most centered and the most "normal" of the four in canon. If any of them could step back and look at things from a purely objective viewpoint, it would be Linna, who has no axes to grind nor is swamped in innocent idealism.
[She is the most normal one of the four, granted. And she's a nice person, yes. But as for being the conscience . . . wouldn't you kind of want it to *have* a sort of ...well, if not innocent, at least determined idealism? like nene? or does it go counter to her arc? I guess Linna could be the conscience. I have no real problem with it. Given how she handled Vision, it makes more sense. It just conjures up funny images, that's all.]
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"No money? NO MONEY? B-but . . *sputter, sputter*.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely a fanfic convention, although she is financially astute. As I recall, Priss makes just as many comments about money, in the same vein. They just haven't become part of her stereotype.
[It's not completely a fanfic convention. She cares about money, though I'm sure that isn't the entirety of her. Maybe not the extent as shown in fanfics, but she likes money.]
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She can, as the saying goes, trust her with your life, just not your money.
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Why not? She's a stockbroker now, if we are to believe Crash! That means she has to be minimally trustworthy enough to get hired in the first place... and she deals with millions of other people's yen every day.
[But is she above a little insider trading? A little corporate corruption? With Genom as the corporate powerhouse and thus world example, I'm sure that every other corporation is even more relaxed with the truth or lack of same in terms of taxes, stocks, etc. etc. And I'm sure that Linna's company is no exception.]
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I like to think of her sitting in a darkened room, stroking a white cat and having a good maniacal laugh to herself.
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Snort. "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to upgrade."
If Sylia has a master plan other than "kill the boomers that show up this time." she hasn't showed it. I long ago joined the camp that believes that she is acting on an external compulsion to enact revenge for her father, implanted and/or activated when she got that cartridge way back when. I don't believe there is any kind of master plan, and that's why so much of the fighting in BGC is ultimately futile. It's unfocused.
[okay.]
Quote:
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And a hostile Leon will not flirt with you, making the world a sadder place. Daley will flirt with you, but that's because Daley's a much nicer person.
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And a hostile Leon will send you a bill for a new Earthshaker.
["Guns that're worthy of my machismo don't come easy or cheap, buddy!"]
Quote:
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Yeah, how's her arc coming along?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa gets a lot more screen time in chapter 13. Don't worry about her.
[Groovy. Lisa has definately been the break out character of this piece.]
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But there wasn't, as far as I could see, that one moment where he realizes the futility of street fighting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, remember, almost all of chapter 12 took place in what, about ten minutes or so. He hasn't had the time yet to reflect on what happened and what Hexe told him. That happens in 13.
[I guess this is where the word 'patience' is used. *sigh*. Okay, I'm taking the long view.]
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To me, he seems pretty darn invincible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's certainly the image he wants to project -- think of how many times in the story he's injured (sometimes badly) and keeps going strong despite that. Part of that is reflecting the V&V rules, where physical damage doesn't slow you down until you pass out at 0 HP, but part of it is also the Warriors Image thing -- "We are implacable, we are unstoppable, we are standing on your mangled corpse."
[Warriors: jackbooted thugs of the new world order . . . but with a sense of humor.]
Quote:
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And given how fricking mobile and FAST (superluminal? That's fast. That's faster than fast.) how anything could be out of his range is quite hard to believe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, remember, as Josh points out, that other than his inherent physical mutations, Doug can really do only one spectacular thing at a time. (Sometimes it looks like more, but we quantify with V&V rules, which often roll several effects into a single power -- Lightning Control, for instance, lets you fling bolts with the best, but also lets you remotely control or short out anything electrical or electronic.) If he's flying FTL, then he has no ranged attacks. If he has ranged attacks, he can't walk through walls. And so on. Think of it as a lot like Ultra-Boy's (from LSH) schtick.
[Oh, okay. I guess that makes sense.]
Quote:
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Oh, well, I guess if you hit him with an orbital laser platform or a really long shot . . . but that's not very dramatic, is it?
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Depends on how you present it. If you've been paying attention for the last few chapters, you should realize that Madigan is planning something that clearly involves the latter.
[Hmm. Planning and doing are often not the same thing. So, any chance of a redemptive Madigan scene, soon?]
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I'm reminded that it took a couple nukes to take out Twister, and even then it only got a couple of his limbs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know the passage you're thinking of, and it wasn't nukes, but conventional explosives -- a lot of them. And frankly, Twister would wipe the floor with Doug -- I'm not even as confident on this issue as Josh is.
[Really? I thought for sure there were nukes. And Doug would give Twister some trouble, surely, if only in the beginning.]
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I still think that Doug needs a bit more "believable" conflict, some more defeats that aren't so emotional,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me just say, wait for the next two chapters. Things are going somewhere that, while I've shown you the path already, I doubt you're expecting. Of all the readers who've posted anything about it, only Logan Darklighter has even guessed what I've got in store -- and even he didn't get the whole story.
-- Bob
[Okay. I'll wait, ugh, patiently. And I'll try to stop pestering you so much that you can work.]
-murmur the fallen
[as I have absolutely no idea what your goals are other than, you know, the usual telling of a good story, i can't really answer that. As for telling a good story, you've accomplished that from my point of view, despite the many nagging nitpicks i've posted here and which you should probably ignore.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the violence isn't the point, why is there so much of it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Josh said, because it's BGC and to an extent that's the nature of the beast. MegaTokyo is a violent place, whether or not Doug is there.
[Yeah, you're right there. Sylia should make a new rule: "Do not make friends outside of the Knight Sabers. They will die in as ironic a way possible.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nene had an ARC?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, she does. At the risk of saying too much, she's intentionally emblematic of a number of things going on in the story at several different levels. And before anyone asks, yes, there are deliberate parallels and echoes between the aftermaths of the Nene-Maggie and Doug-Nene conflicts.
[Uh . . . okay. Gonna really have to re-read everything . . .]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While, yes, I can see it, Linna makes for a pretty funny conscience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's so funny about it? She's the most centered and the most "normal" of the four in canon. If any of them could step back and look at things from a purely objective viewpoint, it would be Linna, who has no axes to grind nor is swamped in innocent idealism.
[She is the most normal one of the four, granted. And she's a nice person, yes. But as for being the conscience . . . wouldn't you kind of want it to *have* a sort of ...well, if not innocent, at least determined idealism? like nene? or does it go counter to her arc? I guess Linna could be the conscience. I have no real problem with it. Given how she handled Vision, it makes more sense. It just conjures up funny images, that's all.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No money? NO MONEY? B-but . . *sputter, sputter*.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely a fanfic convention, although she is financially astute. As I recall, Priss makes just as many comments about money, in the same vein. They just haven't become part of her stereotype.
[It's not completely a fanfic convention. She cares about money, though I'm sure that isn't the entirety of her. Maybe not the extent as shown in fanfics, but she likes money.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
She can, as the saying goes, trust her with your life, just not your money.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not? She's a stockbroker now, if we are to believe Crash! That means she has to be minimally trustworthy enough to get hired in the first place... and she deals with millions of other people's yen every day.
[But is she above a little insider trading? A little corporate corruption? With Genom as the corporate powerhouse and thus world example, I'm sure that every other corporation is even more relaxed with the truth or lack of same in terms of taxes, stocks, etc. etc. And I'm sure that Linna's company is no exception.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like to think of her sitting in a darkened room, stroking a white cat and having a good maniacal laugh to herself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Snort. "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to upgrade."
If Sylia has a master plan other than "kill the boomers that show up this time." she hasn't showed it. I long ago joined the camp that believes that she is acting on an external compulsion to enact revenge for her father, implanted and/or activated when she got that cartridge way back when. I don't believe there is any kind of master plan, and that's why so much of the fighting in BGC is ultimately futile. It's unfocused.
[okay.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And a hostile Leon will not flirt with you, making the world a sadder place. Daley will flirt with you, but that's because Daley's a much nicer person.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And a hostile Leon will send you a bill for a new Earthshaker.
["Guns that're worthy of my machismo don't come easy or cheap, buddy!"]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, how's her arc coming along?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa gets a lot more screen time in chapter 13. Don't worry about her.
[Groovy. Lisa has definately been the break out character of this piece.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But there wasn't, as far as I could see, that one moment where he realizes the futility of street fighting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, remember, almost all of chapter 12 took place in what, about ten minutes or so. He hasn't had the time yet to reflect on what happened and what Hexe told him. That happens in 13.
[I guess this is where the word 'patience' is used. *sigh*. Okay, I'm taking the long view.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To me, he seems pretty darn invincible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's certainly the image he wants to project -- think of how many times in the story he's injured (sometimes badly) and keeps going strong despite that. Part of that is reflecting the V&V rules, where physical damage doesn't slow you down until you pass out at 0 HP, but part of it is also the Warriors Image thing -- "We are implacable, we are unstoppable, we are standing on your mangled corpse."
[Warriors: jackbooted thugs of the new world order . . . but with a sense of humor.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And given how fricking mobile and FAST (superluminal? That's fast. That's faster than fast.) how anything could be out of his range is quite hard to believe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, remember, as Josh points out, that other than his inherent physical mutations, Doug can really do only one spectacular thing at a time. (Sometimes it looks like more, but we quantify with V&V rules, which often roll several effects into a single power -- Lightning Control, for instance, lets you fling bolts with the best, but also lets you remotely control or short out anything electrical or electronic.) If he's flying FTL, then he has no ranged attacks. If he has ranged attacks, he can't walk through walls. And so on. Think of it as a lot like Ultra-Boy's (from LSH) schtick.
[Oh, okay. I guess that makes sense.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, well, I guess if you hit him with an orbital laser platform or a really long shot . . . but that's not very dramatic, is it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends on how you present it. If you've been paying attention for the last few chapters, you should realize that Madigan is planning something that clearly involves the latter.
[Hmm. Planning and doing are often not the same thing. So, any chance of a redemptive Madigan scene, soon?]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm reminded that it took a couple nukes to take out Twister, and even then it only got a couple of his limbs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know the passage you're thinking of, and it wasn't nukes, but conventional explosives -- a lot of them. And frankly, Twister would wipe the floor with Doug -- I'm not even as confident on this issue as Josh is.
[Really? I thought for sure there were nukes. And Doug would give Twister some trouble, surely, if only in the beginning.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still think that Doug needs a bit more "believable" conflict, some more defeats that aren't so emotional,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me just say, wait for the next two chapters. Things are going somewhere that, while I've shown you the path already, I doubt you're expecting. Of all the readers who've posted anything about it, only Logan Darklighter has even guessed what I've got in store -- and even he didn't get the whole story.
-- Bob
[Okay. I'll wait, ugh, patiently. And I'll try to stop pestering you so much that you can work.]
-murmur the fallen