Re: nitty gritty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe we should get down to defining some terms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feel free to toss out a starting position for review and discussion - that's what the rest of us do when we want a point settled. If they're discussed and agreed on, then they'll probably end up in the Gazetteer. (If nobody wants to discuss them, then they probably aren't important enough for the Gazetteer.)
[Starting point/speculation/basis for argument: The Articles of Convention, which were at once Constitution and treaty with Earth. As the broad consensus on the governments of Earth, particularly those which have cut off emigration to space, have always seen Fenspace as a monoculture, this strengthens that perception. Particularly as the Cons were touted as being representative of ALL Fen in Fenspace, with the idea being that it is the consent of ALL the governed. Which is everyone in Fenspace. At least that's the idea.
However, many groups, the minority [though how much of one is an open question, as no one has done a full census of Fenspace (right?)] of Fen disagreed with the Articles, either in part or in whole, did not show up to Cons, and did not recognize the authority of Majority Rule. Thus started a wave of counter-Conventions, denouncing the Articles.
This is particularly the case in that before the Articles, it was broadly understood that voluntary citizenship and micronation proliferation were the societal norm. And so micronations which did disagree with the Articles were redesignated as either allied states, neutral states, or rogue or "criminal" organizations, stripped of any recognition by the majority factions.
This criminal appelation was given to those nations which broke the criminal provisions of the articles and/or the human rights provisions. these included those states or post-states which provided unregulated manufactured pharmaceuticals earth-side, engaged in near-earth weapons smuggling, landtheft, etc. etc. (i'd still like to argue for the existence of slavery because it's part of human nature to want to dominate, even when it's just irrational to do so. perhaps especially.) And so the birth of Boskones.
(I think that the political aspect of criminality shouldn't be ignored, nor the economic. Many of the criminal activities done today are done in support of political gain. The Taleban and the Afghani opium fields come easily to mind. So too does the Contras. Fanon and the lumpenproletariat, etc.]
(BTW, and going off on a tangent, why the heck did you post that Sector General writeup to the Gazetteer without taking any of the discussion about it into account? You've essentially built the biggest white elephant in Fenspace by doing that, since it's the only structure that far out... I haven't bothered to add it to the Places in Fenspace sticky because it fails the reality check.)
[anyway, i always saw that gazette entry as being written after OGJ when more infrastructure's in place and more Saturnian and Jovian colonies were getting started. there has to be a certain amount of wastage in both educational and medical facilities.
From a strictly Free Market perspective, it is a massive boondoggle. Probably around the time of OGJ it's little bigger than, say, half a strip mall. If that. And most of that's for docking of ambulences.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the hegemony of the Conventions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hegemony"? I do not think that word means what you think it means. The Conventions no more have hegemony over the factions than the UN has over the nations of Earth.
(Hegemony: predominance of one country over others by virtue of leadership or influence. Syn: ascendancy)
As for what right they have to do this: "The Convention is Fenspaces great experiment with direct democracy." (This is the very first sentence from the Quick Start Guide entry on Conventions, as you'd already know if you'd read what's already been posted.)
[The majority rule aspect of the convention is a de facto hegemony, particularly as the most populous factions/micronations/states/post-states push their own agendas against the smaller factions/et. al.
also: you should probably get the Quick Start stickied or something as the glossary only says that it's "The closest thing to a government possessed by the Fen. An annual gathering descended directly from WorldCon is held to modify, ratify and reassert what little law exists off-Earth. Furthermore, Conventions can be called by anyone in times of emergency."]
-murmur
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe we should get down to defining some terms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feel free to toss out a starting position for review and discussion - that's what the rest of us do when we want a point settled. If they're discussed and agreed on, then they'll probably end up in the Gazetteer. (If nobody wants to discuss them, then they probably aren't important enough for the Gazetteer.)
[Starting point/speculation/basis for argument: The Articles of Convention, which were at once Constitution and treaty with Earth. As the broad consensus on the governments of Earth, particularly those which have cut off emigration to space, have always seen Fenspace as a monoculture, this strengthens that perception. Particularly as the Cons were touted as being representative of ALL Fen in Fenspace, with the idea being that it is the consent of ALL the governed. Which is everyone in Fenspace. At least that's the idea.
However, many groups, the minority [though how much of one is an open question, as no one has done a full census of Fenspace (right?)] of Fen disagreed with the Articles, either in part or in whole, did not show up to Cons, and did not recognize the authority of Majority Rule. Thus started a wave of counter-Conventions, denouncing the Articles.
This is particularly the case in that before the Articles, it was broadly understood that voluntary citizenship and micronation proliferation were the societal norm. And so micronations which did disagree with the Articles were redesignated as either allied states, neutral states, or rogue or "criminal" organizations, stripped of any recognition by the majority factions.
This criminal appelation was given to those nations which broke the criminal provisions of the articles and/or the human rights provisions. these included those states or post-states which provided unregulated manufactured pharmaceuticals earth-side, engaged in near-earth weapons smuggling, landtheft, etc. etc. (i'd still like to argue for the existence of slavery because it's part of human nature to want to dominate, even when it's just irrational to do so. perhaps especially.) And so the birth of Boskones.
(I think that the political aspect of criminality shouldn't be ignored, nor the economic. Many of the criminal activities done today are done in support of political gain. The Taleban and the Afghani opium fields come easily to mind. So too does the Contras. Fanon and the lumpenproletariat, etc.]
(BTW, and going off on a tangent, why the heck did you post that Sector General writeup to the Gazetteer without taking any of the discussion about it into account? You've essentially built the biggest white elephant in Fenspace by doing that, since it's the only structure that far out... I haven't bothered to add it to the Places in Fenspace sticky because it fails the reality check.)
[anyway, i always saw that gazette entry as being written after OGJ when more infrastructure's in place and more Saturnian and Jovian colonies were getting started. there has to be a certain amount of wastage in both educational and medical facilities.
From a strictly Free Market perspective, it is a massive boondoggle. Probably around the time of OGJ it's little bigger than, say, half a strip mall. If that. And most of that's for docking of ambulences.]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the hegemony of the Conventions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hegemony"? I do not think that word means what you think it means. The Conventions no more have hegemony over the factions than the UN has over the nations of Earth.
(Hegemony: predominance of one country over others by virtue of leadership or influence. Syn: ascendancy)
As for what right they have to do this: "The Convention is Fenspaces great experiment with direct democracy." (This is the very first sentence from the Quick Start Guide entry on Conventions, as you'd already know if you'd read what's already been posted.)
[The majority rule aspect of the convention is a de facto hegemony, particularly as the most populous factions/micronations/states/post-states push their own agendas against the smaller factions/et. al.
also: you should probably get the Quick Start stickied or something as the glossary only says that it's "The closest thing to a government possessed by the Fen. An annual gathering descended directly from WorldCon is held to modify, ratify and reassert what little law exists off-Earth. Furthermore, Conventions can be called by anyone in times of emergency."]
-murmur