Quick jump on the rest of the stuff...
#2: I think it probably got lost in the threadchurn. Page 3 on the original plotbunny thread was a *long* time ago discussion-wise.
#5: It was discussed, but it's never been put into practice (when your waved-up Impala can outrun an F-22, you never have to get empirical evidence). I would hesitate to call that a Rule just because we don't really *know* that.
#8 & 13: Common custom, sure. Still, they need some more open discussion before we can go so far as to hammer them into stone.
That said, onto the meat of the issue.
Everybody's forgotten this - hell, I've forgotten it most of the time - but the central precept isn't that the Mundanes aren't using handwavium at all because it's dangerous and scary, they're not using handwavium for the purposes the fen are using it for because, frankly, they can think of better shit to do with handwavium than colonize space while pretending to be Klingons and space heroes and all that. They're building Utopia on their terms: nice, peaceful, prosperous and maybe a bit dull, while the fen are building Utopia on their terms: free, wooly, full of excitement, adventure and really wild things.
We've drifted away from that some as the stories and the backstories have built up - and that's understandable, it's early in the overall timeline, etc. - but that's the core divide between Fan and Mundane, not a question of use, but a question of purpose.
But we're getting off track.
It's the mirror image of coolness creep; call it "wangst creep" for lack of a more encompassing term. If you hammer on the need for flaws and more flaws in order to make the characters more "realistic" then all we end up with is a gang of competent people and utter basasses who do nothing but sit around and whine about their problems. (Insert unkind remarks about BSG or any number of fanfics here.)
You're worried about coolness creep, and that's all well and good. I'm worried about your efforts to combat coolness creep creating wangst creep. Keep that in mind.
Yes, I am the moderator, if only because nobody else wanted the job or was willing to nominate another candidate. Regardless, I will not impose my will. Like any good communist, I impose the People's Will. So if you can rally enough support to your side, I will impose it despite my misgivings.
So *debate.* All of you. If this little roundabout ends up being just me and Sirroco I will be *extremely* pissed off.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery
FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information
"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
#2: I think it probably got lost in the threadchurn. Page 3 on the original plotbunny thread was a *long* time ago discussion-wise.
#5: It was discussed, but it's never been put into practice (when your waved-up Impala can outrun an F-22, you never have to get empirical evidence). I would hesitate to call that a Rule just because we don't really *know* that.
#8 & 13: Common custom, sure. Still, they need some more open discussion before we can go so far as to hammer them into stone.
That said, onto the meat of the issue.
Quote:But this hasn't happened yet. I've been under the impression that, being reasonable adults, we've accepted the basic guidelines and are doing a good job of self-policing. There has been nothing - nothing - too over the top that's been presented and accepted.
The issue is that there is a natural tendency towards "coolness creep". People who come in late will tend to want to get more stuff than anyone and put less effort into it. If you don't have some sort of balance criteria, then the world will quickly fall apart under the weight of new entrants pushing at the edges.
Quote:Well, no.
Likewise, one of the central precepts of this universe is that the vast majority of the mundane world isn't using the stuff because it's dangerous and unpredictable.
Everybody's forgotten this - hell, I've forgotten it most of the time - but the central precept isn't that the Mundanes aren't using handwavium at all because it's dangerous and scary, they're not using handwavium for the purposes the fen are using it for because, frankly, they can think of better shit to do with handwavium than colonize space while pretending to be Klingons and space heroes and all that. They're building Utopia on their terms: nice, peaceful, prosperous and maybe a bit dull, while the fen are building Utopia on their terms: free, wooly, full of excitement, adventure and really wild things.
We've drifted away from that some as the stories and the backstories have built up - and that's understandable, it's early in the overall timeline, etc. - but that's the core divide between Fan and Mundane, not a question of use, but a question of purpose.
But we're getting off track.
Quote:They may be better stories, but the more you wield the flawhammer in order to jam in flaws where you percieve a lack, the more likely it is all you're going to get are characters that are nothing *but* weaknesses, and technology that's nothing *but* difficulties, if only to avoid constant criticism.
Beyond that, it is my position that stories that are written about characters who have weaknesses as well as strengths, and technology that has difficulties to go with its blessings, are *better stories*. If you allow people to write portions of the world with no flaws in them, then my understanding of human nature strongly suggests that those portions will come to dominate it over time.
It's the mirror image of coolness creep; call it "wangst creep" for lack of a more encompassing term. If you hammer on the need for flaws and more flaws in order to make the characters more "realistic" then all we end up with is a gang of competent people and utter basasses who do nothing but sit around and whine about their problems. (Insert unkind remarks about BSG or any number of fanfics here.)
You're worried about coolness creep, and that's all well and good. I'm worried about your efforts to combat coolness creep creating wangst creep. Keep that in mind.
Quote:*sigh*
Regardless, you're the moderator. If you wish to impose your will, I will not stop you. I would ask that you explicitly state what the replacement for the Rules are - particularly Rule #12. I will also say that if you do *not* see a need for balance, then my own role is substantially diminished.
Yes, I am the moderator, if only because nobody else wanted the job or was willing to nominate another candidate. Regardless, I will not impose my will. Like any good communist, I impose the People's Will. So if you can rally enough support to your side, I will impose it despite my misgivings.
So *debate.* All of you. If this little roundabout ends up being just me and Sirroco I will be *extremely* pissed off.---
Mr. Fnord
http://fnord.sandwich.net/
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery
FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information
"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"