Ah, yes, the old “you don’t know what science is” ad
nauseum argument. Usually made by
those who really don’t. If it can be
scientifically studied, it can be reproduced reliably. Maybe not in a lab, but in the universe. And, according to the Rules, handwavium
can’t. Rule #1 states “you will
get something close but not exactly identical to your specifications.” That, alone defies science.
If every scientist on earth performed the same experiment
with Handwavium, would they get the same result? No. They’d
all get different results. That
defies science. In the next
experiment when they all got different results again, and the results didn’t
match the first experiment either . . . something is wrong. After dozens of experiments . . . with none
of it working, that means that, A.
Science as we know it doesn’t work or B. This substance operates beyond the rules of
Science. Neither are scientifically-valid
answers.
Yet, here we are.
Predictably, you’ve totally missed the point of my
post. You’re taking it as an attack
against Fenspace in general and you, M Fnord, in specific. It wasn’t and it isn’t. It’s a point of view that is not shared by me
alone.
My post was a discussion on why people who are outside
of your little clique would find Handwavium and Fenspace odd and “uncomfortable.”
As a meta reason, M Fnord, you’re another reason I don’t do
much with Fenspace. Historically, you’ve
shown that you’re unwilling and unable to accept that a perspective that is not
100% in line with your Fenspace/Handwavium ideal is “badwrongfun.” You’re also the only person here who takes
any critical discussion on Fenspace as a personal attack.
So, here comes a critical discussion:
From a story perspective part of the issue is that you’re asking
us to accept three miracles instead of just one. One is overt—Handwavium exists and can do all
these wonderful things.
Sure, I can accept that.
No problem.
The second one is semi-overt—Handwavim is infallible
and perfect and incorruptible.
I’m not saying that it gives you what you’re looking for, I’m saying
that it doesn’t do bad things.
That’s a little out there, but why not. I can live with that. But, you should put that on the tin.
The third is the big one.
You even allude to it, but totally fail to understand just what it is
you’re asking. You are asking us to
believe that everyone is born good and altruism rules the universe.
I’m not that cynical but I am a skeptic. It’s not nihilism it’s simple logic. In fact, you’re the only one showing any
nihilism. I understand that Fenspace isn’t
a Dystopia. But, that doesn’t mean
everyone is perfect. Mary Sues are
perfect. The fact remains that there are
going to be just as many evil people as good people. And, to be truthful—most people are
neither, they just are.
It doesn’t take everyone being “evil” just one. And they don’t even have to be “evil,” just
have a different perspective.
And while we can agree that Handwavium breaks the laws of
physics (that, really, doesn’t bother me—just stop trying to say it does!), you
comment that the Fen still use it as do the terrestrial nations. That’s fine.
But, you don’t see normal people using Plutonium on a day-to-day
basis. Handwavium, in any realistic
world (which, hey, I’m not saying Fenspace is realistic, but that’s the point
of view of the ‘Danes, and many people outside of Fenspace will have) it would
be as heavily regulated (if not more) than any radioactive or explosive material.
Sure, there are some things that Handwavium does that are
predictable—it eats stuff to make more Handwavium (just like grey goo, hmm . .
.). You can’t make it to create weapons. You can use it to make vehicles space-worthy
and capable. But, Rule #1 even states
that you don’t get what you want, only something close. And close is determined by how capable you
are of envisioning your idea. I’ve seen
discussions that Handwavium doesn’t work for everyone. If that is true then it doesn’t
react in a predictable manner.
Handwavium’s rules are extremely meta. They’re game rules not natural laws. The fact that you can’t get what you want,
only something “close” is a guarantee that no one will ever figure the
rules out.
And the final attempt at an insult: Humility to whom? I figured it would be obvious . . . there I
go, thinking again. Humility to their audience.
Handwavium is treated as a fact. It is treated as an in-universe truth
that is never gives out or fails. It
expects the audience to believe this without an explanation. It’s a religion that the audience is expected
to know is both a fact and a truth.
And, it lacks the humility to the audience because it refuses to stand
up to analysis beyond “it just does.”
To the uninitiated, Handwavium is a Mary-Sue-maker. Anyone can use it and become
awesome. Come up with some
interesting quirks that don’t really harm the character and give them some
nifty powers and you’re golden. As I’ve
been looking over the pictures that need to be created I see a lot of people
who would be classified as super heroes in any other universe. I know dozens of munchkins who would whine
and cry to have this sort of totchkey to rub all over their characters.
And, again, there is a reason I don't do much with it beyond pictures and humor.
nauseum argument. Usually made by
those who really don’t. If it can be
scientifically studied, it can be reproduced reliably. Maybe not in a lab, but in the universe. And, according to the Rules, handwavium
can’t. Rule #1 states “you will
get something close but not exactly identical to your specifications.” That, alone defies science.
If every scientist on earth performed the same experiment
with Handwavium, would they get the same result? No. They’d
all get different results. That
defies science. In the next
experiment when they all got different results again, and the results didn’t
match the first experiment either . . . something is wrong. After dozens of experiments . . . with none
of it working, that means that, A.
Science as we know it doesn’t work or B. This substance operates beyond the rules of
Science. Neither are scientifically-valid
answers.
Yet, here we are.
Predictably, you’ve totally missed the point of my
post. You’re taking it as an attack
against Fenspace in general and you, M Fnord, in specific. It wasn’t and it isn’t. It’s a point of view that is not shared by me
alone.
My post was a discussion on why people who are outside
of your little clique would find Handwavium and Fenspace odd and “uncomfortable.”
As a meta reason, M Fnord, you’re another reason I don’t do
much with Fenspace. Historically, you’ve
shown that you’re unwilling and unable to accept that a perspective that is not
100% in line with your Fenspace/Handwavium ideal is “badwrongfun.” You’re also the only person here who takes
any critical discussion on Fenspace as a personal attack.
So, here comes a critical discussion:
From a story perspective part of the issue is that you’re asking
us to accept three miracles instead of just one. One is overt—Handwavium exists and can do all
these wonderful things.
Sure, I can accept that.
No problem.
The second one is semi-overt—Handwavim is infallible
and perfect and incorruptible.
I’m not saying that it gives you what you’re looking for, I’m saying
that it doesn’t do bad things.
That’s a little out there, but why not. I can live with that. But, you should put that on the tin.
The third is the big one.
You even allude to it, but totally fail to understand just what it is
you’re asking. You are asking us to
believe that everyone is born good and altruism rules the universe.
I’m not that cynical but I am a skeptic. It’s not nihilism it’s simple logic. In fact, you’re the only one showing any
nihilism. I understand that Fenspace isn’t
a Dystopia. But, that doesn’t mean
everyone is perfect. Mary Sues are
perfect. The fact remains that there are
going to be just as many evil people as good people. And, to be truthful—most people are
neither, they just are.
It doesn’t take everyone being “evil” just one. And they don’t even have to be “evil,” just
have a different perspective.
And while we can agree that Handwavium breaks the laws of
physics (that, really, doesn’t bother me—just stop trying to say it does!), you
comment that the Fen still use it as do the terrestrial nations. That’s fine.
But, you don’t see normal people using Plutonium on a day-to-day
basis. Handwavium, in any realistic
world (which, hey, I’m not saying Fenspace is realistic, but that’s the point
of view of the ‘Danes, and many people outside of Fenspace will have) it would
be as heavily regulated (if not more) than any radioactive or explosive material.
Sure, there are some things that Handwavium does that are
predictable—it eats stuff to make more Handwavium (just like grey goo, hmm . .
.). You can’t make it to create weapons. You can use it to make vehicles space-worthy
and capable. But, Rule #1 even states
that you don’t get what you want, only something close. And close is determined by how capable you
are of envisioning your idea. I’ve seen
discussions that Handwavium doesn’t work for everyone. If that is true then it doesn’t
react in a predictable manner.
Handwavium’s rules are extremely meta. They’re game rules not natural laws. The fact that you can’t get what you want,
only something “close” is a guarantee that no one will ever figure the
rules out.
And the final attempt at an insult: Humility to whom? I figured it would be obvious . . . there I
go, thinking again. Humility to their audience.
Handwavium is treated as a fact. It is treated as an in-universe truth
that is never gives out or fails. It
expects the audience to believe this without an explanation. It’s a religion that the audience is expected
to know is both a fact and a truth.
And, it lacks the humility to the audience because it refuses to stand
up to analysis beyond “it just does.”
To the uninitiated, Handwavium is a Mary-Sue-maker. Anyone can use it and become
awesome. Come up with some
interesting quirks that don’t really harm the character and give them some
nifty powers and you’re golden. As I’ve
been looking over the pictures that need to be created I see a lot of people
who would be classified as super heroes in any other universe. I know dozens of munchkins who would whine
and cry to have this sort of totchkey to rub all over their characters.
And, again, there is a reason I don't do much with it beyond pictures and humor.