Quote:Ignoring those now officially being trolls to this thread calling themselves Epsilon and Rev Dark, who totally missed I wrote this:
Wow. This might make sense if the whole global warming / cfc issue was being pushed by 3rd world countries, but it isn't. I assume you have evidence?
Quote:I mean seriously... what is wrong with you people? I didn't even say I was my view point (which to a large extent its not). I checked and I didn't say it was my view point anyway. Most of the crazy nerf the US stuff tends to come from the UN. My problems with the UN, is a separate thread entirely.
Im going to risk a pointless trollfest and try to explain. Do not try to counter this section of the post. This is explanatory
Anyway, what I said was I was 'leery' of NASA and its retcon of the ozone hole projection model. The reason is that they built a new 'cannon' model apparently off the article I posted... which said they needed more research and this was based on one volcano. So the model will be retconned again once more info is available... which will probably mean more awards for someone. I question the speed of the new model popping up and that it was declared the official model. The new model is about keeping themselves relevant and current... Yes, it does take into account new info, but the speed at which it came out looks like a rush to judgement.
I'd really like to see if they did this model retroactively to see how much of an effect say, Mount Saint Helens had on the Ozone Layer that year. Or even what effect that exploding island of Krakatowa had on the Ozone layer, according to the NASA model.
As for CFCs themselves? Don't care about the chemicals by themselves. However, some of the replacements are apparently coming back as worse than the chemicals they replaced. Thus the 'cure' is worse than the disease and doing the opposite of its intended purpose. Some like the foam they use on space shuttles is so much worse, that it managed to damage a space shuttle lethally. (Yes, other factors are involved, but the kill shot was a rock like chunk of the non-CFC foam damaging the tile.) That the foam isn't a CFC based one doesn't bug me... its the crumblely feature of the new stuff that does.
What the NOx does is slow down the Ozone break down for most of the year. So the Ozone consumption rate is closer to the Ozone creation rate. Then a weird vortex isolates the pole and it consumes all the inhibitor and the UV radiation gets through (which is hampered by the angel of the Earth most of the year) and the Ozone is consumed in the isolated zone... then it sucks in Ozone to fill the gap and that is what causes the decrease in total Ozone.
The spraying NOx thing was in part, because I thought is was funny that Ozone Layer was depleting, in large part, because the pole isn't getting enough laughing gas. Which is an extension of earlier parts of this discussion.
Getting back to other matters, for one of the factors in why I actually think that MGW is a tool issue for politics is summed up as the Kyoto Protocol. Which tries to reduce Greenhouse gasses lowering the rate of increase for various countries. However the way it does it is some kind of chart thing that ignores almost everything else in favor of percent graphs. The end of the Wiki article covers most my complaints about it. When the punishment for not compiling with blanket model is give cash to random 3rd world nations (which is why they signed it, Free money!) and literally over half the worlds population is given a pass (China, India, Russia for example), its hard for me not to see it as a tool of politics.
Not that in general I think that less random stuff in the air is a bad thing. However, its the method of going about it, as used in the Kyoto Protocol, is something I question severely. The US, Australia, and I agree with the general idea, which is why it is acknowledged and the specifics ignored. It the actual way of going about it is wrong.
Id like to note here that one of the gases it aims for less of is NOx which means that to mitigate the effects of global warming, we have to deplete the Ozone layer by making less inhibitors. So because countries are fighting MGW the Ozone Layer hole will get bigger by default.
One of the stories that comes to mind for setting people off is this one. This could be a matter of bad survey methods... however Al Gore's last movie is now repeated being shown to young kids and told to them as gospel truth. I've also heard of at least one case in Florida where kids are required to have their parents attend the Al Gore movie or the kids grades suffer. My own vast issues with Al Gore aside that is pretty messed up.