A friend moved to this state with a computer that had AOL, a Spyware infection and a faulty recovery disk.
I've just spent the last two days proving that when you agree to help a friend with a computer that all the above problems your in for a very rough time.
---------------------
Now back to the thread subject a synopsis of a book about Doctors and torture.
Ayiekie I disagree pretty much with all of your reply to my post.
Jpub post isn't quite my view, but his reply was so clear and concise that anything I would add to the question of widespread torture aren't worth posting.
The only thing I can add to your reply about Jpub's location and the assertion that many countries are filling thier news with the story of Americans using torture is that Japan doesn't seem to have a fixation on this. I regularly watch an english translations of 2 Japanese daily news shows and while Iraq is mentioned in the news they rarely if ever mention torture.
I consider these japanese shows a welcome change in bias from the political biases of FOX, CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC.
If your referring to Arab news America has been the great satan and the source of all evil since at least the 1960's. There is nothing we can do to change that.
I apologise if I'm wrong, but Ayiekie your emotions
seem to be politically motivated and only exist because it's a chance to demonize a politician and party you disagree with.
What struck me about your first post and the synopsis it pointed to was how jaded I'd become and how much I'd fallen into the orwellian thought patterns of world wide news cast.
YES! the torture describe is horrible, but there is a certain political party in this country with a vested interest in making it look far worse and wide spread than it probably is.
They are using orwellian techniques to create a image that they hope will give them the next election.
By the same token the other side has a vested interest in the current party and they use orwellian techniques to down play the "homicide" bombings and other problems to increase or maintian thier power in the next election.
The point for me is that many politicians and reporters don't really care about the torture or murder.
The daily torture and murder of civilians is reduced to around a dozen words that are quickly forgotten.
One group/party wants to downplay these murders, while the other party/group has decided we have become so jaded that focusing on these civilian murders won't make them enough political capitol so they instead focus on and magnify something that is relatively minor, but far newer and a less jaded subject.
Your angered and outraged at what these American did.
Torture is wrong and you should be angered, but...
Saddam was killing between 20,000 and 60,000 citizen yearly for most of the time he was in power and he was in charge for well over a decade.
The current Terrorist kill "dozens" a day given the above lazy reporting it's hard to say how many die every day, but I'll hazard a guess at about 25 to 35 on average.
That's about 10,000 a year murdered by these terrorist.
(Remember they are Killing Iraq citizens because they they want to "protect" the civilians from Americans.)
Where was your outrage, anger and concern about Saddam's murders and mass grave yards? Where did MINE go?
Where is your outrage about these terrorist murdering 10,000 innocent Iraq people yearly. When did I forget these numbers were real people?
The numbers below are extremely rough guesses, but magnitudes will probably give a good comparison.
If Saddam had stayed in power about 150,000 to 250,000 people would now be dead by his hand and orders.
The Terrorist have probably killed 50,000 to 100,000 Iraq citizens since the USA took out Saddam.
I have no idea or certainty, but I can't see more than 5000 terrorist being tortured by american soldiers who have a personal experience with the daily murder of Iraq citizens and attacks on themselves.
Now look at even rougher numbers for comparison.
Saddam ~ 200,000 if had remained leader.
Terrorist ~ 75,000 since the invasion.
Torture ~ 5,000 almost certainly less.
Civilian FF ~>15,000 my own personal estimate of "Friendly Fire" by america during the invasion and current occupation of Iraq. I'll freely accept up to 45,000, after all the ones our soldiers are fighting are known for hiding behind women and children.
I think far to many of us have all become American politicians,in the bad sense. At least as bad as the politicians your trying to paint as demons.
Again Ayiekie I apologize, but your outrage and anger about the torture seems motivated more by politics than the actual crime.
It might not be, but that is the way it reads and looks.
The Terrorist have become American politicians shamelessly murdering the people they claim they are going to save in order to influence the next election.
I became a politician and forgot that the statistics quickly covered in a few words each day are living people. I was worried more about how this would play politically and support my own personal conservative views.
I no longer even cared enough to pray for them or the survivors the statistics represent.
Whats the solution? I don't know and we could generate a huge number of new threads with suggestions.
howard melton
God bless
I've just spent the last two days proving that when you agree to help a friend with a computer that all the above problems your in for a very rough time.
---------------------
Now back to the thread subject a synopsis of a book about Doctors and torture.
Ayiekie I disagree pretty much with all of your reply to my post.
Jpub post isn't quite my view, but his reply was so clear and concise that anything I would add to the question of widespread torture aren't worth posting.
The only thing I can add to your reply about Jpub's location and the assertion that many countries are filling thier news with the story of Americans using torture is that Japan doesn't seem to have a fixation on this. I regularly watch an english translations of 2 Japanese daily news shows and while Iraq is mentioned in the news they rarely if ever mention torture.
I consider these japanese shows a welcome change in bias from the political biases of FOX, CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC.
If your referring to Arab news America has been the great satan and the source of all evil since at least the 1960's. There is nothing we can do to change that.
I apologise if I'm wrong, but Ayiekie your emotions
seem to be politically motivated and only exist because it's a chance to demonize a politician and party you disagree with.
What struck me about your first post and the synopsis it pointed to was how jaded I'd become and how much I'd fallen into the orwellian thought patterns of world wide news cast.
YES! the torture describe is horrible, but there is a certain political party in this country with a vested interest in making it look far worse and wide spread than it probably is.
They are using orwellian techniques to create a image that they hope will give them the next election.
By the same token the other side has a vested interest in the current party and they use orwellian techniques to down play the "homicide" bombings and other problems to increase or maintian thier power in the next election.
The point for me is that many politicians and reporters don't really care about the torture or murder.
The daily torture and murder of civilians is reduced to around a dozen words that are quickly forgotten.
One group/party wants to downplay these murders, while the other party/group has decided we have become so jaded that focusing on these civilian murders won't make them enough political capitol so they instead focus on and magnify something that is relatively minor, but far newer and a less jaded subject.
Your angered and outraged at what these American did.
Torture is wrong and you should be angered, but...
Saddam was killing between 20,000 and 60,000 citizen yearly for most of the time he was in power and he was in charge for well over a decade.
The current Terrorist kill "dozens" a day given the above lazy reporting it's hard to say how many die every day, but I'll hazard a guess at about 25 to 35 on average.
That's about 10,000 a year murdered by these terrorist.
(Remember they are Killing Iraq citizens because they they want to "protect" the civilians from Americans.)
Where was your outrage, anger and concern about Saddam's murders and mass grave yards? Where did MINE go?
Where is your outrage about these terrorist murdering 10,000 innocent Iraq people yearly. When did I forget these numbers were real people?
The numbers below are extremely rough guesses, but magnitudes will probably give a good comparison.
If Saddam had stayed in power about 150,000 to 250,000 people would now be dead by his hand and orders.
The Terrorist have probably killed 50,000 to 100,000 Iraq citizens since the USA took out Saddam.
I have no idea or certainty, but I can't see more than 5000 terrorist being tortured by american soldiers who have a personal experience with the daily murder of Iraq citizens and attacks on themselves.
Now look at even rougher numbers for comparison.
Saddam ~ 200,000 if had remained leader.
Terrorist ~ 75,000 since the invasion.
Torture ~ 5,000 almost certainly less.
Civilian FF ~>15,000 my own personal estimate of "Friendly Fire" by america during the invasion and current occupation of Iraq. I'll freely accept up to 45,000, after all the ones our soldiers are fighting are known for hiding behind women and children.
I think far to many of us have all become American politicians,in the bad sense. At least as bad as the politicians your trying to paint as demons.
Again Ayiekie I apologize, but your outrage and anger about the torture seems motivated more by politics than the actual crime.
It might not be, but that is the way it reads and looks.
The Terrorist have become American politicians shamelessly murdering the people they claim they are going to save in order to influence the next election.
I became a politician and forgot that the statistics quickly covered in a few words each day are living people. I was worried more about how this would play politically and support my own personal conservative views.
I no longer even cared enough to pray for them or the survivors the statistics represent.
Whats the solution? I don't know and we could generate a huge number of new threads with suggestions.
howard melton
God bless