Panther noted
No it does not have to come down to faith. It comes down to evidence. Given the fantastic claims made in the Book of Mormon, then the evidence should be
as obvious as a 12 doughnut carrying erection at a nudist colony. We are not talking about a lost colony of a few warm bodies. We are speaking to the
multitudes in their millions, with a metal-working society, capable of architecture of a kind seen in the Middle East area. We are speaking of the herds of
animals required to support these societies. The mines and infrastructure required to supply them.
You can choose to believe as a matter of faith. You can choose to believe as a matter of French Cheeses. The lack of evidence for the book of Mormon is
legion, the evidence directly against it is even greater. To believe in it is a deliberate ignorance, akin to a flat earth, or young earth creation.
So let us look at the questions you put forward as a missionary.
Do you believe in God?
No. God, all gods are creations of mankind.
Do you believe that he loves us just as much as in the time of the Bible?
No. And if you actually read the bible you will see behavior more in line with that of an abusive, violent, mentally disturbed spouse, and not a loving
supportive partner.
Do you believe that he could call prophets and apostles just as he did in the time of the Bible?
No, there is no evidence of his existence, but there have always been shameless hucksters and charlatans ready to lie to the benefit of themselves. They
can lay claim to the words of whatever god is in favour of the moment. Saul of Tarsus, Mohammed, Rael, Applewhite, Aum Shinrikyo, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh,
Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Sabbatai Zevi, Aleister Crowley... I could go on, but I think you get the point.
No. First you have to establish the existence of the god. Then you have to demonstrate that the god in question supports your faith, and has passed on the
appropriate message, and you have understood it. Whether that be the Abramaic god, the flying spaghetti monster, the invisible pink unicorn, or Bert the Magic
Penguin.
Because belief without evidence is dangerous. Especially when that belief is, as described in the ficition of the Book of Mormon, bat shit crazy. No
crazier than Jim Jones, or David Koresh, or several of the others I listed above (with far more similarities than is comfortable for the faithful to
consider.)
Someone has to tell you that the earth is not flat. Sorry to tread on your belief.
What a terrible reason for being 'good'. Not for want of bettering mankind. Not for want of being of greatest benefit to your fellows? Just the
biggest bang for your celestial, eternal, buck. Don't feel bad, the selfish god ideal and schadenfreude of the afterlife is common in many faiths, but
Smith did steal his ideas from excellent sources.
So when were blacks allowed to become full priests in the Mormon faith? June 8th, 1978. Curse of Cain and all of that. A great step forward indeed; glad
to see that the changing social zeitgeist finally caught up with them. With any luck gays and lesbians will be welcome with open orifices at around August 23,
2034.
Cheers,
The Reverend Shayne Dark
Quote: "As for the history stuff, it stated that iron was found pre-Colombian, which M Fnord said there was no evidence. I was just trying to say that you
can't say something didn't happen because we have no solid evidence of it. Archaeologists are consistently digging up more information, who's to
say that tomorrow that they won't find some horse bones, any of those other animals, or a cistern. Will that automatically make me right and the Book of
Mormon true? No, because some other unproven historical fact will be focused on or the find will be disputed and people will keep saying the record can not
be true. That's what happens when dealing with a history that is thousands of years old. In the end it has to come down to a matter of faith. "
No it does not have to come down to faith. It comes down to evidence. Given the fantastic claims made in the Book of Mormon, then the evidence should be
as obvious as a 12 doughnut carrying erection at a nudist colony. We are not talking about a lost colony of a few warm bodies. We are speaking to the
multitudes in their millions, with a metal-working society, capable of architecture of a kind seen in the Middle East area. We are speaking of the herds of
animals required to support these societies. The mines and infrastructure required to supply them.
You can choose to believe as a matter of faith. You can choose to believe as a matter of French Cheeses. The lack of evidence for the book of Mormon is
legion, the evidence directly against it is even greater. To believe in it is a deliberate ignorance, akin to a flat earth, or young earth creation.
So let us look at the questions you put forward as a missionary.
Do you believe in God?
No. God, all gods are creations of mankind.
Do you believe that he loves us just as much as in the time of the Bible?
No. And if you actually read the bible you will see behavior more in line with that of an abusive, violent, mentally disturbed spouse, and not a loving
supportive partner.
Do you believe that he could call prophets and apostles just as he did in the time of the Bible?
No, there is no evidence of his existence, but there have always been shameless hucksters and charlatans ready to lie to the benefit of themselves. They
can lay claim to the words of whatever god is in favour of the moment. Saul of Tarsus, Mohammed, Rael, Applewhite, Aum Shinrikyo, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh,
Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Sabbatai Zevi, Aleister Crowley... I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Quote: That's the main message after all, that God is still revealing knowledge and guidance to us.
No. First you have to establish the existence of the god. Then you have to demonstrate that the god in question supports your faith, and has passed on the
appropriate message, and you have understood it. Whether that be the Abramaic god, the flying spaghetti monster, the invisible pink unicorn, or Bert the Magic
Penguin.
Quote: "If you don't believe it then why do you try to prove it wrong?
Because belief without evidence is dangerous. Especially when that belief is, as described in the ficition of the Book of Mormon, bat shit crazy. No
crazier than Jim Jones, or David Koresh, or several of the others I listed above (with far more similarities than is comfortable for the faithful to
consider.)
Quote: The only real purpose for that is to validate your own choices as being right and those who went down the other path as being hopelessly lost delusional
cowards who can't face reality.
Someone has to tell you that the earth is not flat. Sorry to tread on your belief.
Quote:
"I just think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is my best bet with the biggest pay off. This way I get to be a Joint-heir with
Christ(Romans 8:16) and have the chance to become like my Heavenly Father. "
What a terrible reason for being 'good'. Not for want of bettering mankind. Not for want of being of greatest benefit to your fellows? Just the
biggest bang for your celestial, eternal, buck. Don't feel bad, the selfish god ideal and schadenfreude of the afterlife is common in many faiths, but
Smith did steal his ideas from excellent sources.
Quote: "As to skin color affecting how we vote, anyone who does that is a racist. I don't vote a certain way because I'm white, but because of certain
values I have."
So when were blacks allowed to become full priests in the Mormon faith? June 8th, 1978. Curse of Cain and all of that. A great step forward indeed; glad
to see that the changing social zeitgeist finally caught up with them. With any luck gays and lesbians will be welcome with open orifices at around August 23,
2034.
Cheers,
The Reverend Shayne Dark