Quote: Epsilon wrote:
The really morally bankrupt and intellectually dishonest part of your question is that warrantless wiretapping would have been utterly unneccesary to prevent
the attacks you are so hung up on. "Bin Laden Determined To Attack Within United States", does that title sound familiar? How about the memos
regarding suspected terrorists at flight schools and all the other evidence Bush et al ignored?
First off this was to prevent OTHER attacks, not 9/11 and you can throw Clinton into that 'et al'. You are also
using hindsight again.
Quote: Epsilon said:
Here's the thing, Fidoohki. You are trying to claim some sort of moral high ground, as if obeyin our government is the highest moral conviction we can
have. This is bullshit. In the case of the United States the ultimate authority in your country is not the president, it is the constitution and you should
obey that. Soldiers on the battlefield are required to disobey illegal orders and they have taken oaths of obedience to the government. We,
as citizens, should do no less.
Moral high ground? I didn't claim that. I jsut remember what post 9/11 was like. We were at war and if the president asked me
to take a look at my records at that time to see if any information in them to stop and potential attack then I'd let him.
Quote: Epsilon wrote:
If the president (or prime minster or governor general in my case) ordered me to kill someone I would say NO. If they ordered me to steal, I would say no.
That is your call to make and you are welcome to it but if that person you were supposed to kill killed someone else? Can you live with
that knowledge that you could have done something but didn't?
Quote: Epsilon wrote:
And this isn't just about them being at a wartime footing. This is about teaching a lesson. The lesson is "if the government asks you to do
something, you make damn certain they ahve the actual authority to do so or we will sue your ass into the ground." Punishing the telecoms for this
egregious violation of people's civil rights is not just about punishing them, but about making every telecom company in the future think twice before
they capitulate to demands.
.. So you want to punish these companies because they choose not to live by your view? Look, if you place your values above innocent
life that is your choice but be forward about it.