2020 US election - It Came from Washington DC

[GethN7]

And Pennsylvania has also gone over to Biden.

As far as I can tell, unless California was to go Republican, there is now no one single state where a change in the result would affect the overall race. Possibly no two.

There's going to be recounts in the closer states and a bunch of lawyers making some big bucks, but it looks like the election is settled.
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It also looks like Trump has cast himself as the last hero, trying to hold back the bolshevek hordes from overwhelming civilisation.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTru...9996397575

I'm all for making sure all the votes are honest at least. I want no question about who won legitimately. I'd feel that way even if the roles were reversed.

I do have to say even I find the above by Trump a bit......hyperbolic. If Biden cheated, he'll get discovered as Tilden got caught. If Biden won honestly, then Donald should concede gracefully. He could still try to come back after four years if he wants. As for it being the end of days, I refuse to believe it'll be that bad even if Biden wins, and I wanted Trump to win.

Besides, both Trump and Biden are mortal men. If Augustus Ceasar could not cure the gout of men who prayed to him, electing someone I didn't want to be US president will not spell the doom of the country. If that was the case, then Alexander Hamilton never should have conceded to Thomas Jefferson as our third president.

[Labster]

Anyone who becomes President will have to deal with a deeply divided country.  A whole bunch more voters came out in 2020 than did in 2016, and the result disproves a tenet of liberal ideology: Trump is not an electoral abberration.  He represents who nearly half of us are.  Meanwhile, the Trump camp routinely suggests that Democratic leaders be locked up.  The division here will be long and hard and deep, and neither man can heal the divide.

So it's starting to look like a Biden win, which leaves those two Senate races in Georgia.  Georgia is a run-off state, which means that one or both of those seats will be up for election in one month with only two candidates on the ballot. If both races are up, it would mean control of the Senate hangs in the balance.  They've been talking about it being a hundred million dollar race, which is just plain ridiculous.  Control of the Senate has to be worth at least a billion dollars, right?  I don't understand, why there is so little money in politics?

[GethN7]

Seems like there is some flesh to hang on the "votes were rigged" skeleton:

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/...newsletter

Now, I just want to say this so far looks legit, I don't know how much more is out there, and I hope the vote recount weeds any suspicious votes on BOTH sides. Both Trump and Biden should win or lose by the votes they actually got via the people, if only to put this crap to bed for good and actually choose who runs the country for the next four years in good conscience.

If the Trump side played fast and loose, I want their feet held to the fire too. When it comes to my country, I'm a patriot for the ideal of the country before I am any partisan for any mortal political figure in it, and I want to be dead sure whoever runs things till 2024 got there fairly. If after weeding out the BS Trump still loses, fine by me, so long as his loss is a clean and honest one.

[hazard]

The USA needs a clear and clean election because otherwise there's going to be a massive mess.

Whether or not the parties in the election need a clear and clean election is highly arguable.

That the outside actors interfering in the election need the election to be as muddled and suspicious as possible is not. To any nation that doesn't want the USA to interfere with their foreign policy, a USA distracted by internal unrest and strife is a good thing.

[SilverFang01]

Rob, here are the results of PR’s plebiscite:
https://elecciones2020.ceepur.org/Noche_...esumen.xml

I set the language to English.

[hazard]

Delivering the results of the plebiscite as 'yes/no' with no context as what's being voted on is not helpful, Puerto Rico.

Although it does look like Puerto Rico is on the average in favour of statehood looking at this.

[Dartz]

Something that is coming to mind....

The act of calling an election when you don't even know how many valid votes were cast does seem that bit bizarre.

It's literally the first step in the counting process here. Decide how many ballot valids there are, how many spoiled there are, and then working with the actual result counting from there. It's slower - but eliminates a lot of this bollocksology and screaming.

The quantity of valid votes is the very first thing decided, and everything's worked out as a proportion of that figure. Before the votes are allocated to their candidates.

To do otherwise seems like idiocy, open to either abuse, or allegations of abuse

[Black Aeronaut]

OH FER FUCK'S SAKE!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/nat...video.html

REALLY!?


REALLY!!?!?!?

[robkelk]

Rob, here are the results of PR’s plebiscite:
https://elecciones2020.ceepur.org/Noche_...esumen.xml

I set the language to English.

Thanks.

So now it's up to Congress whether they're willing to listen to the will of the voters.

Delivering the results of the plebiscite as 'yes/no' with no context as what's being voted on is not helpful, Puerto Rico.

Although it does look like Puerto Rico is on the average in favour of statehood looking at this.

"Yes" and "No" were the options on the ballot. It's completely reasonable to report on the results by option.

[robkelk]

Seems like there is some flesh to hang on the "votes were rigged" skeleton:

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/...newsletter

Not saying this particular story is or is not factual, but Just The News has a history of running counterfactual stories, according to Media Bias Fact Check. (Even The Register comes out better than that.)

Can you find the same story on a reliable news source (either Very High or High on the Very High/High/Mostly Factual/Mixed/Low/Very Low scale that Media Bias Fact Check uses), Geth?

[hazard]

OH FER FUCK'S SAKE!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/nat...video.html

REALLY!?


REALLY!!?!?!?

Why are you surprised?

No, I'm not kidding. This is entirely in keeping with US internal politics.

"Yes" and "No" were the options on the ballot. It's completely reasonable to report on the results by option.

It's also completely reasonable to state what the plebiscite was on on the page you are reporting about the result so that people who don't know what the vote was about can actually interpret the vote. Instead of trying to draw conclusions out of random noise, like if this plebiscite is about adopting yogurt as the official dessert of Puerto Rico.

Hell if I know why that'd be up for a referendum, but it makes as much sense to me as any other subject with yes and no as the only valid answers.

[Dartz]

OH FER FUCK'S SAKE!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/nat...video.html

REALLY!?


REALLY!!?!?!?

They had a boot full of fake votes too.

I don't know what the plan was - or if there was a plan - but it'd probab ly make a great session of Fiasco.

[robkelk]

Breaking news on the radio: Biden just took Pennsylvania, bringing his Electoral College count to 273. Trump is refusing to concede.

EDIT: Now on the web

RE-EDIT: Starting to show up on the USA news services now, including Fox

[GethN7]

Seems like there is some flesh to hang on the "votes were rigged" skeleton:

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/...newsletter

Not saying this particular story is or is not factual, but Just The News has a history of running counterfactual stories, according to Media Bias Fact Check. (Even The Register comes out better than that.)

Can you find the same story on a reliable news source (either Very High or High on the Very High/High/Mostly Factual/Mixed/Low/Very Low scale that Media Bias Fact Check uses), Geth?

https://montanadailygazette.com/2020/11/...-of-votes/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...r-BB1aM1Be
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/20...-for-biden
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/209766864...y-to-trump

Most of these sources are left-leaning or of unknown affiliation. They share the same basic facts as the first source I used. MSN.com is rated High.

[Dartz]

That sounds like an MS Excel cut and paste error.

I'd call it stupid, but there was a time the entire EU's financial strategy in a crisis was determined by an Excel drag-and-drop error.

[robkelk]

Seems like there is some flesh to hang on the "votes were rigged" skeleton:

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/...newsletter

Not saying this particular story is or is not factual, but Just The News has a history of running counterfactual stories, according to Media Bias Fact Check. (Even The Register comes out better than that.)

Can you find the same story on a reliable news source (either Very High or High on the Very High/High/Mostly Factual/Mixed/Low/Very Low scale that Media Bias Fact Check uses), Geth?

https://montanadailygazette.com/2020/11/...-of-votes/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...r-BB1aM1Be
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/20...-for-biden
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/209766864...y-to-trump

Most of these sources are left-leaning or of unknown affiliation. They share the same basic facts as the first source I used. MSN.com is rated High.

(goes and reads the MSN story)

A software glitch is a bad thing, but I'd hardly call it "fraud". It counts as poor judgment on the part of the election officials if the software was known to glitch.

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, though looking at the map, with Pennsylvania now locked in, Michigan's computer woes, and the demand for a recount in Wisconsin isn't enough to flip it back to Trump. They'd have to challenge in a lot more places to put it back into even uncertain territory.

[GethN7]

Seems like there is some flesh to hang on the "votes were rigged" skeleton:

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/...newsletter

Not saying this particular story is or is not factual, but Just The News has a history of running counterfactual stories, according to Media Bias Fact Check. (Even The Register comes out better than that.)

Can you find the same story on a reliable news source (either Very High or High on the Very High/High/Mostly Factual/Mixed/Low/Very Low scale that Media Bias Fact Check uses), Geth?

https://montanadailygazette.com/2020/11/...-of-votes/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...r-BB1aM1Be
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/20...-for-biden
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/209766864...y-to-trump

Most of these sources are left-leaning or of unknown affiliation. They share the same basic facts as the first source I used. MSN.com is rated High.

(goes and reads the MSN story)

A software glitch is a bad thing, but I'd hardly call it "fraud". It counts as poor judgment on the part of the election officials if the software was known to glitch.

I'll accept that for now, one swallow doesn't make a spring. If similar "errors" crop up elsewhere, then that might change,  but for now, this could be an honest mistake.

[robkelk]

OH FER FUCK'S SAKE!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/nat...video.html

REALLY!?


REALLY!!?!?!?

Did you honestly expect something else after the incumbent told a militia to "stand ready"?

[robkelk]

USA Today is reporting that both Georgia Senate seat elections are likely to go to a runoff election.

Also at USA Today: No presidential candidate in modern history has refused to concede, but there's no law that requires it. This article mentions that a lot of what's usually ignored in an election, including the entire Electoral College process, will be reported on if there isn't a concession.

[robkelk]

I just realized:

Every time a first-term President (no matter what party he's in) presides over the negotiation of a peace treaty between Israel and one of its neighbours, he doesn't get re-elected.

Coincidence? Or is the lesson here "don't meddle in the Middle East if you want a second term"?

[hazard]

The presidential election isn't done on November 3rd anyway. That's just the election of the electoral college; the actual presidential election will be on 14th of December, and there's no guarantee that the electors will vote in accordance with the voters that send them. Faithless electors as a thing crop up time and time and time again.

[Black Aeronaut]

Really, I was expecting gunmen to hold up a polling station. Not for some testosterone-addled sovereign citizen wannabe to go and try to raid a counting station. Like as if they weren't gonna have that shit locked up tighter than Mike Pence's ass hole.

[LynnInDenver]

The presidential election isn't done on November 3rd anyway. That's just the election of the electoral college; the actual presidential election will be on 14th of December, and there's no guarantee that the electors will vote in accordance with the voters that send them. Faithless electors as a thing crop up time and time and time again.

It would take quite a number of them doing so given the current numbers, both confirmed and projected. That doesn't say it won't happen... but on the other foot, that would basically ensure that everyone with a head on their shoulders, both inside and outside the country, would consider American "Democracy" a complete and total failure. We're already going to be treated like anything we agree to can be undone literally every four years... having the Electoral College do that would basically have anyone approached by the U.S. (or U.S. companies, given the trade shitshow with China and elsewhere) considering that we can't be trusted to keep word over anything, at best agreements will become incredibly short term with high levels of concessions... at worst we will be left out in the cold as much as a former world power can be.

[GethN7]

The presidential election isn't done on November 3rd anyway. That's just the election of the electoral college; the actual presidential election will be on 14th of December, and there's no guarantee that the electors will vote in accordance with the voters that send them. Faithless electors as a thing crop up time and time and time again.

It would take quite a number of them doing so given the current numbers, both confirmed and projected. That doesn't say it won't happen... but on the other foot, that would basically ensure that everyone with a head on their shoulders, both inside and outside the country, would consider American "Democracy" a complete and total failure. We're already going to be treated like anything we agree to can be undone literally every four years... having the Electoral College do that would basically have anyone approached by the U.S. (or U.S. companies, given the trade shitshow with China and elsewhere) considering that we can't be trusted to keep word over anything, at best agreements will become incredibly short term with high levels of concessions... at worst we will be left out in the cold as much as a former world power can be.

Gotta say, irrespective of who you wanted as President, I lament we're repeating mistakes done in countries once considered parody of actual democracy. Now the US has little room to criticize.