All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XVII

[Bob Schroeck]

Hmmmmm...

When I find a page written by the creator of the work being described, I add this banner to it:
{{cleanup|The original version of this article was written by the writer of the work being discussed. [[Death of the Author|Other viewpoints are requested]].}}
Thus showing that there's a bias in play.

<nod> I've cut'n'pasted that very banner into all of his work pages.

Since there is a bias in play, I would be hesitant to accept a recommendation by the work's author. That statement is essentially "Hey, look at what I did!"

So... while I think that a work page created by the creator of the work is okay as long as it's identified as such, a recommendation of a work by the creator of the work goes too far into Shameless Self Promoter, IMHO.

Unless someone objects, then, I'll nuke that rec tomorrow, and modify the master rec page template to note that recommendations by the authors are not accepted.

[Bob Schroeck]

And done.

[robkelk]

Anybody up to making a few bot runs? I've put together a few automated lists of pages that should have particular categories but don't. Too bad I don't have a bot.

Added some more lists. This is getting to be an expensive page to load, so I won't add many more, if any.

[robkelk]

Just added a stinger to Tempting Fate. We've all been there, we've all done that, we've all seen the 502/503 messages.

[robkelk]

As per this discussion, anon editing and page creation has been re-activated.

Remind me to review this in "a month or two" (so, before Halloween), as per Bob's suggestion.

EDIT: One hour and one minute later: first anon spam.

Keep track of the anon spam in the forum thread, please. I want evidence in case we need to restrict anon editing before the end of the month.

[robkelk]

As per this discussion, anon editing and page creation has been re-activated.

Remind me to review this in "a month or two" (so, before Halloween), as per Bob's suggestion.

EDIT: One hour and one minute later: first anon spam.

Keep track of the anon spam in the forum thread, please. I want evidence in case we need to restrict anon editing before the end of the month.

Well, that didn't last long.

Anon posting rights re-revoked because we got as many spammers in a day with anon posting rights turned on as we got all month with anon posting rights turned off.

[robkelk]

Just noticed (while doing a wiki walk from "The Naked Gun/Heartwarming")...

We have a trope for an actor who goes from comedy to drama and a trope for an actor who goes from drama to comedy.

Do we have a trope for an actor who goes from comedy to action? Mind you, the only actor who I can think of off the top of my head who did that is Bruce Willis, so this might be too rare to trope. (If it isn't too rare, though I'd suggest calling it "Bruce Willis Syndrome" for consistency with the two tropes linked above.)

EDIT: And did anybody go from action to comedy, just to complete the set? It's plausible for somebody who does his own stunts and wanted to give comedy a try.

[Bob Schroeck]

John Wayne, when he made The Conqueror? <grin>

[robkelk]

---

I don't know enough to be able to answer this question, but I recall that other mods do...

[Bob Schroeck]

Not my area of expertise, sadly.

On another topic entirely, am I the only one getting a little tired of New XanderMartin98? I mean, it's one thing to use the wiki to promote one's own work, but he's gone waaaaay past self-promotion and deep into delightedly wallowing in "see how disgusting my work is!"

[robkelk]

On another topic entirely, am I the only one getting a little tired of New XanderMartin98? I mean, it's one thing to use the wiki to promote one's own work, but he's gone waaaaay past self-promotion and deep into delightedly wallowing in "see how disgusting my work is!"

Ain't No Rule (EDIT: Unless you think it's so bad that Rule 1 applies)... but, yes, it is getting old.

We could make a rule. I'd be hesitant to apply any rule to anybody retroactively, though.

[Bob Schroeck]

No, I don't want to make a new rule restricting content so. That way lies TV Tropes.

And it's not bad enough for a Rule 1 violation. Especially since once you get him off his fetish fuel his edits are good.

But damn if I'm not reacting to seeing his name in Recent Changes the same way I do when I see Jason taylor or Kuma. Which is basically, "oh dear god in heaven not again."

[GethN7]

Here's my take. We are NOT a shrine or a place to edit with one hand. He's coming DANGEROUSLY close to violating both if he hasn't already stepped over the line.

So, I recommend if it keeps happening, we lay down the law, point to the rules on that, and tell him to chill. If he won't, then we drop hammers more sternly as needed.

Left a warning here:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...x3wbu4txar

Edit 2: It is very obvious our friend here has some enjoyment out of shock value for the sake of being crass, lewd, and obnoxious, so I left a sterner warning to tone it down where it already exists and keep it that way going forward, or it will be excised as a rules violation.

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...r6po2kp0yt

[Labster]

Dude is a classic attention whore, film at eleven.

EDIT: Where does Film at Eleven belong? Dead Horse Trope, Forgotten Trope?

[GethN7]

Dude is a classic attention whore, film at eleven.

EDIT: Where does Film at Eleven belong?  Dead Horse Trope, Forgotten Trope?

I'd say more a forgotten trope. It's an uncommon but still used meme reference in conversations on occasion.

Also, yes, our shock lover friend is quite the attention whore. A smartass who doesn't like the fact he got called out for being shock jock who is getting off on being crude for fun too:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...81okq9zhzi

[Bob Schroeck]

I haven't been to the wiki yet this morning, but if he hasn't started cleaning up his mess, I say we just sweep in and start doing it for him. And lock him down for a little while when we do.

[robkelk]

Dude is a classic attention whore, film at eleven.

EDIT: Where does Film at Eleven belong?  Dead Horse Trope, Forgotten Trope?

The wiki does not think it means what you think it means... Film At Eleven

(Yeah, we should rename the page so that "At" isn't capitalized, but do we want to give it a different name and use Film@11 as a disambiguation page?)

[Bob Schroeck]

I've never seen the usage "Film@11" before...

[robkelk]

I haven't been to the wiki yet this morning, but if he hasn't started cleaning up his mess, I say we just sweep in and start doing it for him.  And lock him down for a little while when we do.

I was about to comment on his choice of edit summary reasons, but I see Geth beat me to it.

Yeah, we've got a "special snowflake" here. (It would be nice if people could learn how to at least pretend to be adults before starting to edit the wiki, instead of us having to teach basic good manners...)

[GethN7]

I haven't been to the wiki yet this morning, but if he hasn't started cleaning up his mess, I say we just sweep in and start doing it for him.  And lock him down for a little while when we do.

I was about to comment on his choice of edit summary reasons, but I see Geth beat me to it.

Yeah, we've got a "special snowflake" here. (It would be nice if people could learn how to at least pretend to be adults before starting to edit the wiki, instead of us having to teach basic good manners...)

I decided it would be best not to wait for Xander to get his head out of his posterior and made our position vis a vis our policies perfectly clear here:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...yvxem8bwlv

Feel free to comment further if need be.

[robkelk]

Just noticed that works from 1923 went into the public domain in 2019. So... one more Buster Keaton movie is now on the wiki. Feel free to look for more; I don't have time to make a thorough search.

[Labster]

Sorry about intruding in the discussion as the 4th bureaucrat, maybe I should just to back to lurking.

But I've done things with various rules committees for a long time, and very often you have people upset, but they tell you the wrong reason they're upset. The problem might hinge on a different rule entirely. No one is really upset about the self-promotion itself, they're upset about how distasteful the self-promotion is. To me, this guy is Refuge in Audacity in action -- all of the perverse stuff is hiding that he's just not a very good troper. Lots of these examples don't actually apply to the trope, or they provide little to no context.

When you start talking about censorship or lewdness you just play into his hands. He'll just apply Parody Retcon. Stick to standard style guidelines, and he won't know how to fight it. The only thing is someone has to have the stomach to brave the Augean Stables. That might have to be me.

[robkelk]

Sorry about intruding in the discussion as the 4th bureaucrat, maybe I should just to back to lurking.

No worries. It's as much my fault as yours - neither of us were doing the heavy lifting in that thread that Bob and Geth are doing.

Besides, it just might work out for the best, if he realizes he doesn't have any further avenue of appeal.

But I've done things with various rules committees for a long time, and very often you have people upset, but they tell you the wrong reason they're upset.  The problem might hinge on a different rule entirely.  No one is really upset about the self-promotion itself, they're upset about how distasteful the self-promotion is. To me, this guy is Refuge in Audacity in action -- all of the perverse stuff is hiding that he's just not a very good troper.  Lots of these examples don't actually apply to the trope, or they provide little to no context.

When you start talking about censorship or lewdness you just play into his hands.  He'll just apply Parody Retcon.  Stick to standard style guidelines, and he won't know how to fight it.  The only thing is someone has to have the stomach to brave the Augean Stables.  That might have to be me.

Whoever does it needs to be prepared for complaints about changing the pages. Should it become necessary, reminding people of this part of the user agreement might - or might not - help:

If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here.

Granted, the way that it might help is in driving away people who don't like their text changed...

[Bob Schroeck]

What of late has started to worry me is if all this is his intention from the start, that he's a long-term stealth troll whose purpose is to push us to the point where we sanction him so he can turn around and say, "See? They're no better than TV Tropes!"

[Bob Schroeck]

All right. I think everyone's favorite filth merchant is clearly ignoring us with this new entry on "So Bad It's Horrible/Fanfic A-D" I feel like rolling back the addition with the note "If you think it's so bad, why not delete it from ff.net instead of boasting about it here?"

I propose that we apply the recent new rule about authors recommending their own works to pages like this as well, because this is just more promotion.