[OOC][PLOT] The Fourth Thread of Planning for Arc 1 - Arrivals

[Labster]

On another topic entirely:

While we've provisionally jossed theories that El Goonish Shive characters have autism, Twitter appears to have successfully diagnosed author Dan Shive with autism.

I've read a fic with an explicitly autistic!Sakaki, but thought it put her a bit too OOC.  You might be tempted diagnose Tomo with ADHD... but you'd be wrong.  She's actually just a person for whom the education system is useless and boring.

The main problem is that autistic characters are more useful to the reader than the author.  Readers want characters to identify with -- and that's one of the things that make EGS so great particularly with respect to gender issues.  But as a writer, you want your characters to interact, so the introverted form is not helpful.  And ultimately, it doesn't tell you much of anything about what the character wants in life.  A disarmed character like Yang may want to be rearmed to fight.  A sociopath might want power.  An autistic person wants largely the same things as everyone else, just in a slightly different proportion.

Atypical on Netflix does a really good job of showing that, though Sam has a relatively severe case.  But for high-functioning people, like those I spend a lot of time with at work, they're really not all that different from neurotypicals as characters.  In real life, it means certain communication strategies and environments are more productive.  But in fiction, do we really want to go into the distinction between a person who wants to work in quiet, or a person who really wants to work in quiet with a single distraction?  I mean, maybe, but I'm not seeing how or why right now.

[Black Aeronaut]

In regards to Nanoha acting much more mature than she ought... let’s just say that nearly losing one of your parents in such a traumatic way kinda has an effect on a kid. She doesn’t know what it means to hurt like Ben and Fate do, but she definitely knows what it feels like to have nearly lost someone so important to you. She really did spend the entire time by her father’s bedside.

Also, in Triangle Heart, wasn’t she learning the family sword styles even if she wasn’t going to pursue that as a career?

If nothing else, I can go ahead and say that Nanoha is one of those types that people would say that she has an Old Soul.

[robkelk]

In regards to Nanoha acting much more mature than she ought... let’s just say that nearly losing one of your parents in such a traumatic way kinda has an effect on a kid.

It doesn't need to be a traumatic way, either. Not at liberty to name names - it isn't my story to tell - but I've seen how having an ailing parent can cause a youngster to have to grow up in a hurry.

I found Nanoha's behaviour to be perfectly believable.

[Labster]

I must have missed the episode where she lost a parent. In fact, it totally looked like she had both parents to me.

[Black Aeronaut]

That’s the Triangle Heart continuity. Shiro died at an event he was working that was attacked by terrorists.

In MGLN, there was some unspecified accident that put him in the hospital for some time, but he survived.

[Labster]

By the way, my Aria Halloween Special is on the wiki and finished, pending a final editing pass.  43kB on a single character, pls don't h8 me.   I'm doing an edit and readthrough of the main Halloween story now, since editing is better when you have a little distance.


Did we want to revive this bit from thread 2:

If we add that to the Halloween party story, he probably would.

Speaking of the Halloween party story, here's a line for you, riffing off a comment you made on the PiratePad.

"Ben, I'm the Goddess of the Past. All of my meaningful relationships - those kind of relationships - are in the past. That means I'm available. Want to go somewhere after this party, just the two of us?"

Heh.  Ben would have a counter for that, but he's pretty sure that saying it out loud would land him in hot water.  That counter being, "But by your own logic, wouldn't that just mean I'm another notch in your headboard once everything is said and done?"

I have all kinds of Asperger-style thoughts like this.  The trouble for me?  Balancing how badly needed the thought is against how many feathers it's going to ruffle.

But in this case, Ben would go for an assist with Belldandy because he knows she'd understand, her not judging Ben based on one statement and instead taking the big picture view.  And she'd understand his concern completely, and then be able to relate this concern to Urd in a way that's not going to anger her.

Also, if your SI says that to Urd, Brent will go up and say, "Urd-sama, can I offer you a drink?"

And when he does, someone gets to see me over at a wall hitting my head against it. "Always alone, always late" when asked will answer "Don't worry about it,  it's just issues."

Bonus points if that "someone" is Kaorin, who is in the same boat and wouldn't be interested in your SI.

I'm just asking because I'm interested in, um, I mean, my SI would enjoy Urd's company.  Especially before being in a major relationship.

[Rajvik]

I'm good with it going in

[robkelk]

Feel free! She'd probably be able to teach Brent a few things about magic, too.

[Black Aeronaut]

The same. Have at it.

[Labster]

Feel free! She'd probably be able to teach Brent a few things about magic, too.

So when I said we would have a magical evening, I definitely meant this, and not something else entirely.

Given the change in Ben's relationship status later on, do you mind if he blurts out the stupid thing?  People do say the wrong thing every once in a while, I have experience in this.  Nailing Urd's reaction to it would be the hard part.  There's a certain type of character for whom this would be a compliment -- your Touga Kiryuus of the world.  It's a little offensive too.  But I thinking mostly towards disappointment.

[Rajvik]

My read on Urds character is that she would probably laugh it off with a oh you are so cute, kind of comment.

Anyone else?

[Black Aeronaut]

Depends. I can be dumb sometimes, but it’s not like Aspies never learn from past experiences.

[Labster]

But did you learn from past experiences on camera? Actually, let me clean up and post Brent's first meeting with Belldandy so you can see what I mean.

[robkelk]

If I have a decent read on her personality, Urd's reaction to Ben's comment will depend on her mood. If she's in a good mood, she'll laugh it off. If she's in a serious mood, she'll explain what she meant. If she's pissed off... well, Ben's hopes of any relationship beyond "cooly professional" will have gone down the drain.

[Dartz]

Relationship advice is not my thing.

And amusingly - Meg does not know the right thing to say exactly either. Only in a narrow field, to achieve specific goals.

--------
I always know the right thing to say, the part to touch, the right button to push. It's built in, programmed, innate, by design. I am the fantasy that there is somebody out there who is perfect for you and I can change to fit.

It can be so perfect. It's addictive. To the point where you'll do anything to keep it and I can take it away any time I want.

I could do all of these things, and it'd feel so real to you. But it's still just a hollow fantasy. For me, it can be fun or it can be a chore - but nothing more. I'm a walking dating sim to the richest of neckbeards.

Real people say the wrong thing, get uncomfortable - they bump and grind off each other and fight and apologise and are still mad at each other when its done anyway. Real people understand that it's just the way other people are, or they learn a lesson for the next time. Real relationships require all kinds of scrappy, messy stuff that I never really understood myself. It's always a little bit painful and it requires effort to make it work.

Understanding why won't make Urd less angry, but she's probably the most mature and adult of all of us an she probably realises it too. Apologising won't make her forgive you - but she might at least respect the intent if she lets you. Explaining yourself might be the wrong thing to do - it doesn't change how she feels and just makes it sound flippant. But i think you'll hold it against yourself for a lot longer than she might.

Otherwise, I can't tell you what to do different. We're all kids compared to her anyway. She's probably seen and met thousands upon thousands of people who've said dumber and dumber things.

---

[Black Aeronaut]

But did you learn from past experiences on camera?  Actually, let me clean up and post Brent's first meeting with Belldandy so you can see what I mean.

It took me a while to figure out what you meant.

For something 'On Camera' it would have to be something god-awfully specific.  Let's see what you got.  (Honestly, this was something that kinda hacked me off about Fenspace, that Mal would take stuff my character does and try to portray it in a negative light because "I'm human" and therefore am duty-bound to make mistakes.)

[Labster]

"On camera" just meant "in writing in the story".  You may have learned something in real life, but if your SI learns that same thing in the context of a story, it's called character development.  This is usually considered good writing.

This is from a bit earlier, back in Venice, maybe a couple weeks before Halloween.

It was a few minutes to eleven when Tomo knocked on the manager's door.  It didn't open right away, so she knocked again, louder this time.

The door opened to reveal a man in an aloha shirt printed with California landmarks.  "Hi, can I help?"  I looked down to notice my visitor, "Oh.  It's you."  The pest had come to visit me again.

"I'm having a problem with my computer, Brent."

"Uh huh."

"The interface is too complicated.  Can I get a Chobit instead?"

"We don't have those.  Not invented yet."

"Okay, how about a boomer?"

"It's 2016, not 2040."

"Well, what do you have?" Tomo pushed her way inside my apartment, and ducked into the office.  She declared, "Aha, look at that, two monitors!" as if it was proof.

I sighed.  "My setup is even older than yours, Tomo.  You don't need to hack the Gibson, and neither do I."

"But what about this thing," she pointed to a keypad and a set of blinkenlights in the wall.

"That's the Good Neighbor System.  It's the security system that Washuu installed last night.  I guess it has some sort of space-grade security, so there are probably force fields or floating column things."  I picked up the manual, "Actually, I was just trying to figure out how it all worked."

"So what does this red button do?"

"That's the panic button.  If we're under attack or see something big, it calls for help."

"Oh, cool."

I looked back to the book.

"So uh, how do you turn the panic button off?"

I glanced over -- a red light started flashing on the device, and the panic button itself was glowing a nice warm red.  "What did you do?"

"Well, the button looked so big and red, it was basically asking me to push it!"

"Tomo, you idiot!"

"Don't mind, don't mind.  Just turn it off."

I flipped through the manual.  I quoted, "Enter the DAC, then hold PANIC and RESET for three seconds.  What the hell is a DAC?"

"Don't look at me!"

I started flipping through pages at random, trying to figure out what to do next.

Tomo declared, "I'm just gonna try the Panic and Reset button thing."  Three seconds later, and a flashing blue light joined the urgent red lights.  "I don't think that worked."

"What now?"  I read the display, "What's 'Crisis Mode'?"

It turned out that the panic button really lived up to its name, in terms of the amount of panic we were feeling.  "I don't know, but what are those things coming out of the ceiling?"  

Rotating beacon lights, from the look of it.  The room took on a rosy glow, which was not how I was feeling, "Tomo, I turn my back on you for ten seconds, and you cause this?  What the hell is wrong with you?"

"Hey, it's not my fault you don't know how to work your security system,"  she countered.

I yelled back, "Even an idiot knows not to push buttons randomly.  What are you, three?"

I could see Tomo say something angry in reply, but I couldn't hear it over the klaxons going off.

"What's going on?"  The door to my apartment slammed open as Akira came in, with Alicia following in her wake.

"Technical difficulties," I screamed over the klaxons.

In the corner of my bedroom sat a full-length mirror.  I saw the glass of the mirror begin to shimmer, then distort, as a woman in elaborate robes flew through the mirror as if it were a portal to another world.

"Can I help?" Belldandy asked.

Not even realizing who it was, I yelled, "Yeah, you can help by shutting off the alarm that this idiot set off."

"If you had read that book better we wouldn't be in this situation," Tomo said, sticking out her tongue.

"You think this is all a big joke, don't you?  You really are a fucking moron!"

"Maybe we need a better manager."

"Maybe it's time I throw you out on the streets."

"You wouldn—"

"You alway—"

Belldandy simply said, "Silence", and everything, everyone was quiet, including the alarm.  She picked up the book, and quickly keyed in the code for a false alarm.

By this time we had attracted a crowd of residents trying to figure out what was going on.  The first to get her voice back was Osaka, "Who's she?"

By now Tomo and I had actually looked at our new guest, and realized who exactly she was, but she introduced herself to the group anyway.  "Good morning, I'm Belldandy, Goddess First Class, unlimited.  I've been hoping to visit you, but I've been very busy lately with the… situation."

"Oh, that's okay." Osaka replied.  "Ganbare ne."

Tomo began, "Belldandy-sama, I–"

"Tomo, it's okay to be funny, but doing things that inconvenience a lot of other people is isn't very polite.  I'm disappointed in you."

"I'm— I'm really sorry!"  Tomo bowed deeply to Belldandy, then turned towards the rest of us and bowed once again.  "I'm really really sorry, okay?"

Yomi looked at everyone else in the room with a look of incredulity.  "Wha?  Are you seeing this?" she whispered.

Chiyo just shrugged in reply.  Tomo's apologies were a rare event indeed.

"And Brent," Belldandy turned to face me.  "It works best if you're calm in a crisis -- and there's never an excuse to berate your tenants.  I expected more from our valued apartment managers."

It was phrased really politely, but it struck me like a shot to the heart.  I could feel the clear timbre of every one of her words in my brain.  And I could see the truth: I had screwed up badly, enough to annoy Her Holiness.

It was like a weight crushing my heart, making the words just tumble out my mouth, "I'm sorry Miss, uh, Lady Belldandy.  I didn't realize -- not that it's an excuse -- I behaved poorly to both you and Tomo, and I, uh, apologize to both of you.  I'm really sorry, Tomo."

It took all my willpower just to keep my eyes off the ground.

Belldandy had just said I was valued, so no matter how worthless  I felt right then, I knew I couldn't trust that emotion.  But I knew I could do better.  I don't know if what I felt then was magical or just Belldandy being herself -- and her being a goddess, I'm not sure that there's a meaningful distinction.

She smiled at us, with that graceful mien, and it felt a lot better.  "Ah!  Now that that's settled, I suppose I have time to visit with everyone here.  I think we could all use some time to relax, myself included."


 ... some time later, after other plot happens ...


Tomo walked up to me, "You know, I'm still really sorry about earlier."

"Me too.  More sorry than you can imagine.  Well, maybe you can imagine."

"Yeah..."

"Well, you don't deserve my temper.  No one does."

"She told me off too, even worse.  I'm like a hundred times more sorry than you."

"Is it a competition?"

"Yeah, for worst person in the world.  You'll never catch up."

"It was just a lapse in judgement."

"I do that all the time, though.  And the insults, I'm like…" Tomo shivered instead of finishing her thought.

"I think that trick of hers, the way she made us feel -- it wouldn't have worked if we weren't good people.  Like, you compare yourself to the way you want to be.  You're a good person, Tomo Takino."

"As are you, Brent Laabs."  She jumped on me and gave me a hug.  And though the day had brought a lot of happy moments, this was the first time I felt content.

We kept the embrace for far longer than I expected, over a couple of minutes, neither of us wanting to let go of the peace we found.

I finally broke the silence, "I think I know why people in the Bible always feared the angels at first."

Tomo agreed, "I know, right?  If that's what self-reflection feels like, I'm gonna stick with consumerism and pop culture."

I tapped her on the head, "Idiot", snickering.



The next morning, there was a knock on my door.  And there she was again.

Tomo said, "Hey, I need some help with my ceiling fan."

"Oh, okay.  Not working?"  Finally a real issue!

"Yeah, it's going too fast, and I want it to go really slow so you can see it, like in film noir."

I slapped my hand to my forehead.  "Really?"

"This is L.A. right?  What if I need to catch a dame for life insurance fraud?"

"Actually, how do fan speed regulators work anyway?"

Tomo offered, "Wanna find out together?"

[Dartz]

That's nice and natural with a good flow. Belldandy has Presence and solves things properly by using that presense.

(Honestly, this was something that kinda hacked me off about Fenspace, that Mal would take stuff my character does and try to portray it in a negative light because "I'm human" and therefore am duty-bound to make mistakes.)

A little moderation is helpful. We all have the best intentions but reality often has a different interpretation of our actions

[Black Aeronaut]

Hmmm....  Thing is, I've dealt with children like that before.  Hell, I've even had to deal with a few adults like that before.

Also, I am very familiar with "Shiny Red Button Allure".  One of my favorite stories about this was my first girlfriend's tale of how her high school had made its computer lab in the old printing press room where they used to print the school's newspaper.  This being small, but very much industrial equipment, the room itself had a simple safety mechanism: big shiny red buttons spaced apart at regular intervals where, upon being pressed, all the electrical outlets in the room would have their circuit breakers tripped.  This led to quite a few students losing a lot of unsaved work because one person couldn't help themselves and just HAD to push the button.

Also, I know that as humans we're hard-wired to want to push the button.  It's actually part of the brain that handles 'rewards'.  It wants us to push the button and have the 'reward' of getting to see what happens.

The next words to immediately come out of my mouth after saying what is was would have been, "Seriously.  Please don't push it or else it's going to inconvenience a LOT of important people."  This would be stated to their face while looking them in the eyes, and if they weren't looking me in the eyes, I would have demanded that they do so.

And afterwards if they do push it?  Oh, I'd be pissed, and rightfully so - I had just gotten done telling them, emphatically, and in no uncertain terms, Do Not Push The Button.  But I've dealt with these sorts of things often enough (that is, someone doing what they are not supposed to do even though you've told them not to - remember, oldest out of seven kids) to know that the best thing to do right then is to make them leave (removing the source of aggravation) so I can actually focus on fixing things and be angry about it later.

"LEAVE.  NOW."

"But what did I do!?"

"You just bought me a boatload of trouble, wholesale.  Leave now so I can fix this!"

"But-"

*Pushes troublesome person out of the room, shuts the door and locks it, then starts working his way the the manual, putting his knowledge from the Navy on how tech pubs are written to use.*

The mistake here on my part might be that they take me a bit too literally and actually leave the complex.  And that would be quite a good story in and of itself.

However, I don't often call anyone 'Stupid', least of all to their face.  That's reserved for the willfully ignorant, and even then I don't use it lightly.  I've had that lesson before.  I don't always know what a person's circumstances are.  They may not be able to help the fact that they're... not the sharpest tools in the shed.  Instead, I would say that someone is 'acting stupid', which would have absolutely been the case with Tomo.

The only two people in my group that I can imagine doing this would be Mihoshi (naturally) or Ryoko - who'd actually do it just to see the anthill kicked over...  And then Washu would promptly show up, cancel the alarm, and then drag Ryoko off by her ear.

So anyhow, you only gave me an example of how one might react when someone intentionally does something to get your goat.  I'd actually need to see the scene you're planning for the Halloween Party itself with the lead-up.  I swear I'll be as honest as possible in my response.

[Black Aeronaut]

ETA: I probably would have averted the situation as a whole by pursuing the persocom thread. Because HEY! Cute and tiny android that's a personal digital assistant! COOLNESS!

"I might be able to convince Washu-chan to cook something like that up for you. She might want to keep your computer in exchange - she actually loves what she thinks of as primitive computer technology." He then grinned and said, "But do you promise that you'll take good care of it and make sure it's happy? Because knowing Washu-chan, it WILL be sentient..."

(Come to think of it, Ben might ask if Washu could make one for him after the Book of Darkness Incident now that he doesn't have Squishy as a companion.... and come to think of it, I've been forgetting to write my scenes with the cute little pudge-ball present... D'oh!)

[robkelk]

Er... we already have plans for Chobits. Hayate gets the first one, remember?

[robkelk]

And now for something completely somewhat different.

---

For the second day in a row, they were doing research at the library, trying to figure out what had happened to them. He waved her over to the computer that he was using. "You need to see this."

"I don't think I need to see anything on a computer. That's your specialty."

"You need to see these Lycos search results." He showed her the screen.

"Sailor Moon... There's an anime about Sailor Moon?"

"And look here." He pointed at one line. "Tsukino-san... No, that has to be wrong. She can't be Sailor Moon."

"How did they know?" she asked in a shocked whisper.

"Are you telling me Tsukino-san really is Sailor Moon?"

"That's right. I figured that out a while ago."

"Why didn't you tell me?"

"It wasn't my secret to tell! Besides, I never asked whether I was right, and she never actually told me."

He cleared the search, and searched for his own name. A few minutes later, he was crying. "Comedy relief? Is that all I am?"

"Not to me." Naru took Umino's hand in her own and held it for a moment. Then she sat down beside him. "Can you show me how to make this search page work? I'll help you find her, or maybe some of our other friends."

[Black Aeronaut]

Er... we already have plans for Chobits. Hayate gets the first one, remember?

I vaguely recall something like that. Can you refresh my memory, please?

And now for something completely somewhat different.

---

For the second day in a row, they were doing research at the library, trying to figure out what had happened to them. He waved her over to the computer that he was using. "You need to see this."

"I don't think I need to see anything on a computer. That's your specialty."

"You need to see these Lycos search results." He showed her the screen.

"Sailor Moon... There's an anime about Sailor Moon?"

"And look here." He pointed at one line. "Tsukino-san... No, that has to be wrong. She can't be Sailor Moon."

"How did they know?" she asked in a shocked whisper.

"Are you telling me Tsukino-san really is Sailor Moon?"

"That's right. I figured that out a while ago."

"Why didn't you tell me?"

"It wasn't my secret to tell! Besides, I never asked whether I was right, and she never actually told me."

He cleared the search, and shearhed for his own name. A few minutes later, he was crying. "Comedy relief? Is that all I am?"

"Not to me." Naru took Umino's hand in her own and held it for a moment. Then she sat down beside him. "Can you show me how to make this search page work? I'll help you find her, or maybe some of our other friends."

Oh, these two? Heh. Where will they be popping up?

[robkelk]

Er... we already have plans for Chobits. Hayate gets the first one, remember?

I vaguely recall something like that.  Can you refresh my memory, please?

https://theresnothingbetter.miraheze.org...nterprises

followed by

http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/s...?tid=13199

And now for something completely somewhat different.

Oh, these two?  Heh.  Where will they be popping up?

That's a secret... for now. EDIT: Not any more. Here you go.

[Labster]

Hmmm....  Thing is, I've dealt with children like that before.  Hell, I've even had to deal with a few adults like that before.

Also, I am very familiar with "Shiny Red Button Allure".  One of my favorite stories about this was my first girlfriend's tale of how her high school had made its computer lab in the old printing press room where they used to print the school's newspaper.  This being small, but very much industrial equipment, the room itself had a simple safety mechanism: big shiny red buttons spaced apart at regular intervals where, upon being pressed, all the electrical outlets in the room would have their circuit breakers tripped.  This led to quite a few students losing a lot of unsaved work because one person couldn't help themselves and just HAD to push the button.

Tomo pushing big red buttons is canon, of course, but it was in her dreams so maybe she gets a bit of a pass. She is an adult -- in the U.S., anyway.

However, I don't often call anyone 'Stupid', least of all to their face.  That's reserved for the willfully ignorant, and even then I don't use it lightly.  I've had that lesson before.  I don't always know what a person's circumstances are.  They may not be able to help the fact that they're... not the sharpest tools in the shed.  Instead, I would say that someone is 'acting stupid', which would have absolutely been the case with Tomo.

So how you would take it is absolutely not how she would take it. She is playing the boke, so calling her stupid is a compliment meaning "you are a funny person, and your bit is working." But as you can see here, sometimes it's not really funny if you're the person she's playing the fool to.

So anyhow, you only gave me an example of how one might react when someone intentionally does something to get your goat.  I'd actually need to see the scene you're planning for the Halloween Party itself with the lead-up.  I swear I'll be as honest as possible in my response.

Yeah bro I don't have that scene written lol. But this is an example of a scene that portrays my SI in a negative light, saying things that he shouldn't say. My real life flaw is that I have a temper. I can get angry, and that can be a positive thing, as All The Tropes wouldn't exist without my long sustained anger. But the other side of it is that my temper can escalate a problem well out of control. And if that person also has a temper, like my mother or grandmother, then we can get into a giant shouting match and say very hurtful things when fundamentally we love each other. Tomo's nature, too, is to escalate a situation.

So what you have here is a scene where my SI tried to hurt one of my residents with words. And half the complex saw it, so everyone will know about it, and remember it. And a goddess of goodness came in, the first one he ever met, and had a bad first impression. Things went badly. And so, character development starts from here. Because the next time…

ETA: I probably would have averted the situation as a whole by pursuing the persocom thread. Because HEY! Cute and tiny android that's a personal digital assistant! COOLNESS!

Nope. The running gag is that Tomo gets an idea, and decides to bug the manager about it, because he has funny reactions. She's really an annoying person sometimes. So if not this, it would have been something else. So she pushes his buttons until she pushes the wrong button and everything turns red. She loses face too. But they both do a better job the next day, as Brent figures out how to put a bigger capacitor in a ceiling fan.

And I know they're cute, BA, but no PDAs with your PDAs.

And now for something completely somewhat different.

Oh, these two? Heh. Where will they be popping up?

That's a secret... for now. EDIT: Not any more. Here you go.

I was hoping for them to show up at our apartment in Japan, Hinata-kan, so Naru could meet Naru.