Macross SEED

[Valles]

...will not be presented here in full.
However.
After a pilot or small crew (for an AWACS, say, or a tank) has gained combat experience - defined as one kill for direct combatants and one engagement's support for non - they're permanently assigned to the same craft whenever practical, and permitted to add whatever nose art they like (well, within the bounds of good taste and officerlike conduct). Larger units - ships, basically - are allowed to do the same from day one, and exactly what to do in that way is traditionally but not always decided by a secret vote from among the crew. Double aces - ten combat kills or better - are permitted to go farther and perform any customization of their craft's appearance that doesn't interfere with identification. The catch being that anything but the regulation paint job has to be done and maintained by the pilot theirself, rather than the standard ground crew. Practically speaking, higher-ranking officers usually manage to bribe subordinates into doing the dirty work, or assign it as punishment detail, but that's not covered by the regs.
Jewelry on duty is a no-no, as is make-up (since it can rub off and end up places it shouldn't, sometimes), but the rules on hair basically boil down to 'whatever is out of your way and doesn't distract anyone else is okay'. That last actually does extend to boot camp, with the caveat that nobody gets any extra time for anything.
I'd go into detail on the uniforms, but that'd take more research than I feel like buying into at the moment. ^_^;
Something I will say is that the EDTO does keep up the tradition of ceremonial swords for dress uniforms, but mandates that they be functional weapons as well as symbolic pieces. Which makes them... rather different from what's usually seen today.
The big reason for this - and the existence of the Spartan configuration - is that the SDF-1 had a few Zentradi swords aboard.
That still demands the question of why a Zentradi would want to use a sword, and I think it's simple: Even relative to steel-grade or better armor, try and think about the cutting ability of an area a few microns across (achieved by adding an SIF generator in the sword's hilt and modifying the field slightly past the actual edge) backed by a Zentradi's strength and nearly a ton of steel, or a piercing point the same width in front of thirty-five tons of moving mass.
Sure, you can do better with a sufficiently powerful beam weapon or enough explosives, but swords are cheap, explosives aren't, and quantum beams can be supressed.
Ja, -n
(likes the idea of competition for Jialan, BTW.)
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[M Fnord]

---

Essentially, yeah. I had pictured the slant going the other way

---

Picky picky picky...
Okay, here's round 2:

Better?
Yrs in boredom-induced graphic design,---
Mr. Fnord, interdimensional man of mystery.
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Valles]

---

Better?

---

*thumbs up*
We're golden!
hmm.
Being as I'm personally fonder of the sleeker 'as designed' look than the 'contrasted-with-surface-ships' version, it occurs to me to wonder two things: First, exactly how extensive are the SDF-1's onboard production facilities? How much heavy industry can it carry out? And second, might the ARMDs not be a simple variation (ie, engines and different innards) on a standard design for EDTD space station modules?
Ja, -n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[classicdrogn]

If you want to keep the 'as designed' lok for the SDF instead of grafting on a bunch of surface ships, then just have it successfuoly rendevous with the ARMOR platforms in orbit before fleeing back down to where they have test data to try a fold, and just strip the surface ships as much as they can for crew and materials afterward, or refit one or two (the SIF-BB, say, and subs as mentioned) with drives and have them accompany the SDF seperately, liek a normal carrier group.
Also - the chuck of ocean that got taken along seems unlikely to freeze in a chuck the way it's shown - more likely it would be a battle between surface tension pulling it in a thin layer over everything in contact, vacuum boiling it away and then freezing the vapor into an impenetreble cloud, and evaporative cooling freezing the body.
Once recovery operations have been carried out as much as possible, setting it into a stable solr or plannetary orbit might also be a good idea, for use as a possible refueling point later (all that water ice) and source of materials for later missions, since there's a lot more than they could physically fit into the ship even if they wanted to. Of course, wanting to do so and being able to, or able before the Zentran track their fold signature and pop in agin, that's a different question - on the plus side, unless they're really unlucky and ewd up moving at Earth orbital velocity in the side of Neptune that means they'd crash into it, there's most likely years if not centuries to come back and fix that later.
Character/BG detail moment: Have someone complaining that the cushion on their favorite chair doesn't feel right any more after being exposed to vacuum, because the foam got explosively decompressed inside.
- CDThat which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
" It's crazy to try to spell out all the mega-nooks and hyper-crannies of a Borg contrivance." - Doug Drexler
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Valles]

---

If you want to keep the 'as designed' lok for the SDF instead of grafting on a bunch of surface ships, then just have it successfuoly rendevous with the ARMOR platforms in orbit before fleeing back down to where they have test data to try a fold, and just strip the surface ships as much as they can for crew and materials afterward, or refit one or two (the SIF-BB, say, and subs as mentioned) with drives and have them accompany the SDF seperately, liek a normal carrier group.

---

*blinkblink* You have a point.

---

Also - the chuck of ocean that got taken along seems unlikely to freeze in a chuck the way it's shown - more likely it would be a battle between surface tension pulling it in a thin layer over everything in contact, vacuum boiling it away and then freezing the vapor into an impenetreble cloud, and evaporative cooling freezing the body.

---

*imagines a cross between a snowflake and God's Own Popcorn Kernal*
Anyway, it'd hardly be inpenetrable. Solid, like a rock, yes, but water ice'd be soft enough and have a low enough melting point to bore through relatively easily.
I like the chair bit, BTW.
Anyway, I've got another thing that needs looked at: Neither the Terran's failure to maintain complete control over something as heavily rebuilt as the SDF-1, nor the existance of an automated program that fires as soon as possible and completely gives away the mounting ship's position, make any sense at all to me.
Therefore, another explanation for the initiation of conflict is required.
Ja, -n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[classicdrogn]

RE water - I meant impenetrable in the visual and radar sense, not literally - and I can't believe I left the n out of chunk twice.
As for the cigarette lighter in the powder room... maybe someone's got an itchy trigger finger in the orbital defenses, or maybe the Zentran just follow standard procedure and start blowing the orbitals away as soon as they fold in. Macross launches to try to assist, forms up with ARMOR-01 through -03, then the real difference in numbers sinks in. Everyone gets ready to die fighting to protect the homeworld, until the captain (Wait - the top slot on the SDF is also in command of three ARMORs as well, so it should be commodore or admiral, no? Yes, Global was a bigger wig than he let on, but I'd expect a clear chain of command to be laid out from the beginning, and as we've noted an ARMOR alone is bigger than any RL carrier. IIRC a carrier is an Admiral's slot IRL) or XO notices that they're suddenly drawing most of the attention, and they come up with the plan to fold to the far side of the fleet from the planet and try to draw them away. Not havng ever performed a fold before, obviously, they decide to go back down to where they did the preliminary testing, and have existing data from.
- CD
ETA: Having the SIF-BB a seperate ship also gives you a capship to blow up later in the series, without duplicating the SDF's abilities. That which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
" It's crazy to try to spell out all the mega-nooks and hyper-crannies of a Borg contrivance." - Doug Drexler
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[ECSNorway]

Or, if we still want to blame it on the SDF-1, perhaps it scattered a few automated defense drones in the outer system on its way in, and they fire the opening shots.
Working on the sub redesign now. One reason I had forward thrusters on the drive ring was for maneuvering and retro-thrust reasons -- a single main bank of thrusters worked on Discovery because it wasn't expected to have to handle combat maneuvering, but you want something a bit more versatile for this system. And with the limitations of construction available in trans-Plutonian space... well, ya do what ya can with what ya got, at that point, and if we're going to keep the surface cap-ships as mobile combatants, they're DEFINITELY going to eat up any large enginery that can be produced at that point.--
"Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of General Zod has been approved."
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[DKnight54]

As a fan of the Macross series, I just had to pop in here with a couple of comments
Re: New Names:
As a rule of the thumb, chinese names have three characters, each with one syllable where as japanese have three to four characters, each character possible having up to three syllable...
As a result, Ningshui Jialan is not a likely chinese name, but as a metter of fact, sounds like a chinesification of a japanese name(possible as both languages share the same characters used in japanese names) Lyn Min-mei, however, is a perfectly logically constructed traditional chinese name(Surname before personal name).
Re: Ship design philosophy:
While I suppose that having artificial gravity is right out for most of the terran ship designs, I hardly think centrifuge rings like the design sketched of the modified submarine are a viable military design, if only because it'd be very vunerable to damage. If you really want(And I like the idea because I've read a novel that executed a similar concept very well), have the submarines be converted into short endurance gunships based off space stations and/or SDF-1. Forget centrifuge rings, forget artificial gravity. Use moving handrails to get about.

Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

[Valles]

---

Yes, Global was a bigger wig than he let on, but I'd expect a clear chain of command to be laid out from the beginning, and as we've noted an ARMOR alone is bigger than any RL carrier.

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If my numbers are right, about three miles long.
Overall, I think that the point about Zentradi standard operating procedure is probably on target. I'll see how it works out when I try and write it out.

---

Working on the sub redesign now. One reason I had forward thrusters on the drive ring was for maneuvering and retro-thrust reasons -- a single main bank of thrusters worked on Discovery because it wasn't expected to have to handle combat maneuvering, but you want something a bit more versatile for this system. And with the limitations of construction available in trans-Plutonian space... well, ya do what ya can with what ya got, at that point, and if we're going to keep the surface cap-ships as mobile combatants, they're DEFINITELY going to eat up any large enginery that can be produced at that point.

---

Hmm. What about a set of thrust reversal plates, like on the Swordfish from Cowboy Bebop? Mechanically simple, and relatively light. Either way, the more I think about it, the more I start to think that the Esperanzas won't have picked up much extra mass at all - as I said, reaction bunkerage can be allowed by ripping out their old reactors and drive machinery, and DKnight's got a point about a centrifuge's vulnerability to battle damage. What I'd do would be gank the SDF-1's spare RCS assemblies (remember, these subs are only about a fiftieth the Macross's length, let alone mass) and bolt one onto the hull on either side of the sub's center of mass - they'd be a little off of vertical centerline, because of the sails, but dead amidships, anyway - with thrust vector assemblies and a smaller-scale RCS cluster where the original ship's propeller used to be. Add your sensor masts and a docking collar directly in front of either drive pod, where the engine's mass will shield the fighter from any thruster blast, and there you are. Moderately maneuverable and highly thrifty.
Engining the surface ships could probably be done quite easily, provided you're willing to sacrifice the option of operating your ARMOR platforms independantly.
Incidentally, I figure that those things are dead slow - so much so that, even carrying three of the things, the SDF-1 is far faster than they could ever manage - but putting them onto smaller ships works the scale equation in your favor.
I wonder how many of the surface ships were designed to be completely pressure sealed?
Well, more agile/better rate of acceleration, anyway.
I don't speak Chinese. ^_^;
Ja, -n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[ECSNorway]

Ok, here's the latest for the converted subs.
home.rochester.rr.com/dauntless/ship/MES-b.jpg
ETA: Posted before seeing Valles' comments. Oh, and half the reason for adding the grav ring is, it just looks cool. Gives the ship some visual interest that subs, really, lack. I can fiddle some more with the drives and RCS... give me a bit.
ETA2:
Updated with Valles-type RCS packs--
"Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of General Zod has been approved."
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Rieverre]

Dunno about just saying 'forget' to that. I mean, okay, if they were just gunships, working in close proximity and as supplement to the capship's armaments, then no gravity wouldn't be that much of a problem.
I got the imperssion, though, that the plan is to have them be the SDF's 'feelers' - mid-long range recon units.
If only because they have more re-mass capacity, hence endurance, than any potential AWACS or Valk recon model would have.
And that they're more expendable than the capship.
The rings _do_ increase your target profile significantly, though. Not something I'd like to ride into combat in.
Rotating _pods_ would seem a better idea, yes ... hmm. I'd go as far as to suggest that the corridors/sleeves or whatever you'd call them be retractable, so that when the rotation stops for combat conditions and so on the pods could be pulled in close to the main hull, thereby minimizing the profile. Would this sort of thing be a viable modification (I mean, we have transforming combat mecha, for crying out loud, it shouldn't be too hard to pull this sort of mod off).
I'd still feel uneasy about leaving them relatively unprotected outside of the main hull's armor, though, but you take what you can get and all that.
And you could use them as escape pods in an emergency.
What would the subs do for weapons, though? I'd imagine going for missile weapons. Maybe mines too if you're going with the forward recon philosophy and giving the subs some sort of silent running (not real mines - more like autonomous missile pods with passive sensors and proximity triggers, and not terribly much capacity).
As for the plot ... heh. Sounds interesting. Just ... I've watched Gundam SEED ... you've already got some changes in the plot that will have a drastic effect on character interaction. The singer not being a whiny little ... well, you get the idea. And so on. Shall we try for a little more diversion than there was in G SEED when compared to plain Gundam?
And, yes, while wanting to see a Jialan/Estevan/Lydia poly is one of my reasons for saying that, I'm also doing so because ... well ... in a way, G SEED was boring.
Also, while Manfred dying would fit in with the way it went in the original ... yes, I know it's important, damnit, that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Right. Carry on.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm

[M Fnord]

Final version of the EDTO shield, all cleaned up & ready for abuse:

If anyone wants the Illustrator file for purposes of mangling, mail me.
Yrs in graphic design,---
Mr. Fnord, interdimensional man of mystery.
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Valles]

It suddenly occurs to me that these 2040s vintage submarines might have more in common with the Tautha de Danaan than a 688.
Hmmm. *starts doodling*
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[M Fnord]

I'd like to throw in here the issue of heat management, too. Something like the refit subs, the ARMDs or anything else that's built mainly on hard-physics technology is going to have the devil's own time keeping the interior from overheating. In order to do that they're going to need radiators to dump that heat, and radiators make for even bigger mission-critical targets than habitat rings. Cut away enough radiator and the ship will have to abandon combat or else parboil the crew.
Radiators can be retracted, but if they're not actively dumping heat back into space then it puts a significant time limit on how long a particular ship can engage. In those terms, space combat would resemble WW2 submarine combat - the ships have a limited time "submerged" and have to win or withdraw before the air runs out/overheats.
Or, you could have an effective heatsink as part of the Valktech package. Whichever.---
Mr. Fnord, interdimensional man of mystery.
http://www.jihad.net/
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Rieverre]

But they would have made for such a _nice_ retro feel ...
Hey, why just 688s? I was having fun imagining this sleek little gunship based off something that'd once been the spiritual heir to the Russian Alpha Class.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm

[classicdrogn]

---

Incidentally, I figure that (ARMORs) are dead slow - so much so that, even carrying three of the things, the SDF-1 is far faster than they could ever manage - but putting them onto smaller ships works the scale equation in your favor.

---

That would also be why they docked with the SDF instead of engaging directly when the fleet shows up - they're in low orbit, having been slated to dock anyway after the ship launched, the orbitals are at the Lagrange points, and the fleets beyond that - no way the ARMORs could get there in less than a couple of days, let alone in time to do any good. Fleet finishes off the stationary defenses, ad a cluster of them microfold in closer gunning for the SDF, SDF dives back into the soup and plans to lead them away again.
- CDThat which does not kill us... has made its last mistake.
SERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
" It's crazy to try to spell out all the mega-nooks and hyper-crannies of a Borg contrivance." - Doug Drexler
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Valles]

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Hey, why just 688s? I was having fun imagining this sleek little gunship based off something that'd once been the spiritual heir to the Russian Alpha Class.

---

So was I, actually, since the 'artist's impressions' I'd seen of next-generation submarine designs mostly looked... well, a lot like the Alfa class. ^_^
Hm. Depends whether we decide that any of the Deep Angel project's speculations panned out.

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The rings _do_ increase your target profile significantly, though. Not something I'd like to ride into combat in.

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Not neccessarily that much, actually, I think. My suggested pods are only about a third to a half the diameter of the main hull and not terribly long, besides, and the structural ring supporting them maybe ten feet broad and seven deep - just enough for the actual structural members and a somewhat cramped hallway, which isn't much given the boat's overall size.

---

Would this sort of thing be a viable modification (I mean, we have transforming combat mecha, for crying out loud, it shouldn't be too hard to pull this sort of mod off).

---

If you can come up with a way to make it work mechanically, I'd be glad to consider it. At the moment, though, I think that the best we could do would be to transfer the ring's momentum to an internal flywheel and lock the pods up against the carosel's support pylons.

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What would the subs do for weapons, though? I'd imagine going for missile weapons. Maybe mines too if you're going with the forward recon philosophy and giving the subs some sort of silent running (not real mines - more like autonomous missile pods with passive sensors and proximity triggers, and not terribly much capacity).

---

Torpedo tubes can launch missiles today. There might or might not be an off-the-shelf design suitable for spacegoing use; if not, the boffins will probably come up with one within a couple months. Also there's the possibility of cramming appropriately shaped canisters full of your Valkyries' medium-range missiles, to help cope with mecha.
And, of course, you can always just bolt things to the outside - Desdroid weapons pods on makeshift turrets would be particularly effective. If you pare your elbow room down enough, you could actually fit enclosed bays for, I'd say, up to four Valkyries in the front ends of your engine nacelles.
Hiding, detection, and radiators are adressed fairly comprehensively here and here.

---

Shall we try for a little more diversion than there was in G SEED when compared to plain Gundam?

---

I'd be surprised if we managed to avoid it.
For Manfred and the lovebirds, well, we'll see how things work out.
Ja, -n
(*shocked that somebody else suggested the threesome first*)
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[ECSNorway]

I've already got torpedo/missile tubes marked out on the sub diagram I've been posting.
Habitat modules: Yes, we need these. If it's not going to be able to generate internal gravity, then they're a requirement. These are the Macross' forward eyes. They might be out only a week, they might need to lay doggo for a month at a time. Crews will be rotated "as often as practical", which usually means "whenever they're forced to return to the SDF-1".
Heat management ... this is a big 'un, it is. It all depends on the amount of hard physics we're going with. Are those RCS packs earth-built units reclaimed when they were deemed no longer necessary for the SDF? Or are they overtechnology units salvaged from a wrecked Zentraedi scout, or the SDF's own spare-parts stores?--
"Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of General Zod has been approved."
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Valles]

---

Heat management ... this is a big 'un, it is. It all depends on the amount of hard physics we're going with. Are those RCS packs earth-built units reclaimed when they were deemed no longer necessary for the SDF? Or are they overtechnology units salvaged from a wrecked Zentraedi scout, or the SDF's own spare-parts stores?

---

Quantum generators might actually make dandy heat sinks, if you just let the physics work so that they can be run in reverse... it'd provide a justification for concealing the ships' infrared signatures, particularly. Anyway, I had been thinking that the scout boats' engines were terran-built, since a mostly-uncontrolled reentry would have melted the original ones and I doubt that there are many Zentradi ships left with any spare parts at all.
The stupid thing that IE has done now is wipe out this whole post I was typing up with details on the Zentradi war machine. Recreating it in a style that's not as cool but a bit more comfortable to write...
The EDTO has assigned codenames for each of the designs it's encountered in combat. The standard cruiser design is called a Birdie, because, well, it looks a bit like a giant shuttlecock, the heavier battlecruisers are Beluga(s), and the huge command ship is a Baleen.
The female use line suit (properly called the Nous-Jadel-Rau) looks like it could have come straight out of Sylia Stingray's workshop. It runs off of lightweight batteries - but not for very long, - has quite limited reserves of reaction mass, and has about enough armor to qualify as splinter protection. Rather than a conventional RCS, it vectors the thrust of its single main engine through a set of four hollow vanes, the arrangement of which is responsible for its codename of 'Butterfly'.
Incidentally, the Zentradi have extremely standardized equipment types - the main engines of their suits are the same installation used as RCS thrusters on their capital ships.
Its male equivalent (the Nous-Jadel-Ger) has greater endurance and armor - nearly as much so as lighter terran designs - but the same main drive and nowhere near the agility. Its physical appearance is based mostly off of the cover art of an Anne McCaffrey omnibus called the Planet Pirates, although the design of its 'helmet' is more in line with that shown on her novel Sassinak (which is the second of the three books included in the omnibus). EDTO designation is Beetle.
The male commander-type machine (Quea-Dlunn-Ger) has an actual power plant, two of the heavy 'bazooka' type beam cannons mounted over its shoulders, two main engines, fairly good endurance and quite adequate armor. It also bears a suspicious resemblence to a sleeked-down version of an ADP K-11. The EDTO calls it the Buzzer because its target lock radar happens to have a default frequency setting the same as Terra Skywatch was using for fighter-base communications at the start of the war - meaning that, whenever a suit accquired a lock, the targeted pilot was treated to a loud, raucous snarl from his comm system.
The last type (Quea-Dlunn-Rau) also resembles another suit from anime, the Struggle Suit featured in the later Gall Force films, but its flight systems are so striking that few people would likely notice. It has a pistol-sized beam gun built into either side of its chestplate, but is otherwise unarmed. For flight purposes, it only has about fifty percent more reaction mass than the Buzzer, but fully three times the thrust. Its six engines are mounted on articulated assemblies on the suit's back, and each motor divides its output through six seperately articulated maneuver vanes. For an idea of the system's overall impression, refer to Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz. Officially, it was designated the Budgie, but during the war it was almost universally referred to as the Harpy type.
Ja, -n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[ECSNorway]

---

Quantum generators might actually make dandy heat sinks, if you just let the physics work so that they can be run in reverse... it'd provide a justification for concealing the ships' infrared signatures, particularly. Anyway, I had been thinking that the scout boats' engines were terran-built, since a mostly-uncontrolled reentry would have melted the original ones and I doubt that there are many Zentradi ships left with any spare parts at all.

---

That's why I suggested looting a Zentraedi ship that they'd managed to wreck. Actually, if they use those big circus-tent-shaped dropshuttles to deliver ground troops, a couple of them get stranded on the island after the misfold... capture a couple of them intact and strip the engines out of them, there you go.
Regarding ECM. Since we've established that the humans are the only ones who have any particular sophistication with it, and they are probably not going to know this going in, so ECM for something like the SDF will be majorly on-the-ball, they're going to have a fairly big advantage here. This is one the subs are definitely going to use to their advantage. Sub crews are well practiced at the slow, stealthy approach, and the ECM advantage is only going to make that better. (Which, given the general problems of small size and weak armor by comparison to the Zentraedi, is going to be their -only- advantage...)
--
"Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of General Zod has been approved."
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Star Ranger4]

(Wait - the top slot on the SDF is also in command of three ARMORs as well, so it should be commodore or admiral, no? Yes, Global was a bigger wig than he let on, but I'd expect a clear chain of command to be laid out from the beginning, and as we've noted an ARMOR alone is bigger than any RL carrier. IIRC a carrier is an Admiral's slot IRL)
FYI -- Naval protocols are such that the person in command of a ship is ALWAYS called Captain, reguardless of his actual rank. In todays navies, there is a captain for the carrier, who actually commands the carrier itself. The admiral commands the battle group as a whole, defining missions, objectives, and general posture, etc.
So, this gives you two options. First would be that Gloval/Propovesky(?) actually IS an Admiral, but since he is in direct command of sdf-1, he would still be addressed as Captian. The second would be that there originally was an Admiral for the prospective battle group, but he was still on the ground officiating, or otherwise dies in the inital incidents.
"I was an Otaku before those kids came along and changed the meaning of the word."
-- HM "Howling Mad" Wilson to more than one team-mate.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[Valles]

---

Regarding ECM. Since we've established that the humans are the only ones who have any particular sophistication with it, and they are probably not going to know this going in, so ECM for something like the SDF will be majorly on-the-ball, they're going to have a fairly big advantage here. This is one the subs are definitely going to use to their advantage. Sub crews are well practiced at the slow, stealthy approach, and the ECM advantage is only going to make that better.

---

Well, yeah, at least as regards their ability to operate effectively on passive sensors - active ECM might make it harder to actually hit you, but it also kinda precludes hiding.
OTOH, space is big, and with the ability to dissipate waste heat into the quantum foam, there's nothing to stop these scouts from just vanishing. Obviously, they're going to give themselves away when they accellerate, but at low boost and with Terran-built baffling gear, they might well be invisible to Zentradi equipment, which I'd figure as being mainly aimed at finding big, noisy capital ships or zippy, wasteful armored troopers.
Anyway, I'd mostly figured that the ECM thing would provide an excellent explanation for why our invicible Zentradi legions shoot like Imperial Stormtroopers.
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Valles]

"" Estevan Frade yelped in the Mexico City gutter-spanish of his childhood as nineteen tons of speeding, heavily armed metal roared past barely ten feet above the cockpit bubble of his stuntplane.
The jet that had buzzed him was an obvious fighter plane, twin-engined with a broad fuselage and variable geometry wings, almost like a narrower version of the American F-14 from the last century save for its V-pattern tail. By the time Estevan had pulled his heart out of his mouth and restrained himself from jerking his plane out of the sky, the imposing warbird was well into the beginning of a picture-perfect recreation of the acrobatic routine he had finished just a few moments earlier.
He recognized the type, of course - the hybrid air-space fighter the EDTO governments had produced using the Macross's technology was quite well known, at least in its broad strokes, and from what Baron had told him, the squadrons on Tinian and its protecting fleet had been the first to receive the new machines.
His eyes narrowed. He -also- knew that showing off the plane's capabilities by setting it up to outperform an opponent designed for agility above all else would be -just- the sort of thing that would appeal to his adoptive big brother's sense of humor. Never mind that the routine his boss had talked him into was one that'd be relatively easy for any jet with a pair of seperate vectored engines to duplicate...
And okay, yeah, maybe it was funny. But damned if he'd let it be -him- that the joke was on at the end!
On the other hand, he'd been hired to put on a show, so he'd have to come up with something that was both flashier than the original plan -and- within his 'opponent's' capabilities, to stretch the performance out before he -really- cut loose.
He found himself starting to smile as he tugged his small biplane into a low orbit around the air show's cleared flight zone. Baron'd -never- live this down.
*****
The screams around her hurt Jialan's ears, but she was on her feet and yelling anyway, just like everyone else on the temporary bleachers set up along the old airstrip's runway, as two planes came in for a landing in unison just as perfect as if the brightly painted little biplane had been attached to its larger military counterpart's wingtip with a steel bar. Whether the aireal game of challenge-counterchallenge had been genuinly impromptu or not, it had still been a hell of a show, as either pilot put their machine through contortions that she, for one, would have declared flatly impossible if she hadn't just seen them with her own eyes, growing closer and closer to the ground and a dangerous crash with every iteration they did.
On the podium set up just short of the apron, she could see Colonel Korbinian snatch the microphone away from the spluttering Master of Ceremonies and step forward with a wave and a movie star's polished grin. "That went even better than I though," he said in a confidential tone. "Did you all enjoy yourselves?"
The crowd roared as individual replies were swallowed in a rush of other voices, but the tone was positive.
"Great! That might let me survive once Captain Trivedi catches up to me for staging this. In the meantime, since you already know Mister Frade, why don't I introduce you to the other star of our show?"
Roar.
Miranda - the girl who had taken over the First Chair position in the flute section from Jialan when she transferred from New Zealand - leaned over and shouted past the din. "i hope he's as cute as the first one! i love a man in a uniform!"
The shorter girl poked her friend in the arm. "i think he's talking about the plane!"
It's hard to whine at the top of your lungs, but somehow Miranda managed it. "that's no fun..."
"Great!" the famous ace enthused from the stage. "Ladies and gentlement, I give you: The Vee Eff One VALKYRIE!"
By this time, the stubby little stuntplane had taxied off out of sight, and an airport firetruck was towing its sleek 'nemesis' back to where the crowds could see it easily.
Korbinian opened his mouth to continue his speech, but was cut off by the sudden and all-too-familiar rising howl of an air raid siren.
Jialan swallowed. Not -again-!
*****
COMMERCIAL BREAK
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===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

Nice. So in place of Hikaru's recklessly impromptu acrobatics, we have Estevan doing a legit air show and finding out he was only there to be upstaged.
For entirely different reasons than Miranda's, I'm also wondering who the Valk pilot was. Anyone important, or just J. Random Angelbird Squadron Pilot?
--Sam
(The Angelbirds, for those not in the know, being the Valkyrie acrobatic team from the first ep of original Macross, equivalent to the real USAF Blue Angels. Their planes' blue-and-red color scheme was an in-joke: if they'd ever been seen in Battroid mode, the paint job would have looked an awful lot like a sailor fuku.)

[Valles]

---

Nice. So in place of Hikaru's recklessly impromptu acrobatics, we have Estevan doing a legit air show and finding out he was only there to be upstaged.

---

Well, that's what the plan was - as it's working out in my head, Manfred didn't actually expect the Valk to be able to 'win' - with good reason, since Estevan was flying aPitts Special - but having it there to come as close as it clearly did was more than good enough.
And, no, the Angelbird throttle jockey wasn't anybody in particular.
Ja, -n
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."