Wear Your Mask - COVID-19 Thread II

[robkelk]

I liked a coworker's idea. Start a rumor among the vaccine doubters that the FDA has been hiding the horse drug in the vaccine.

I've toyed with the idea of trying to start a meme that all medicine and disease is a liberal hoax -- something really outrageous claiming that the very idea of being sick didn't exist until doctors showed up in the (random number)th century to convince people they were sick and needed curing.  Seed the web with a few sites that support the story, ranging from "serious academic" to "frothing conspiracist" all pointing at each other in a massive round robin; if you can pull in and repurpose genuine quotes from the right about healthcare, all the better.  Insert a couple notes in Conservapedia or the Conservative Bible Project how the passages in the Bible about Jesus curing the sick were fraudulent inserts made centuries after the fact to support the liberal medical conspiracy.  Then drop a couple posts in appropriate venues, sit back and let Poe's Law take over. 

Why not take advantage of what the right has wrought to convince its most numerous and rabid supporters to kill themselves off?  See if we can convince them that even broken bones and bleeding wounds are a liberal hoax and if they don't buy into alleged need for care they don't really require it?  And if 15-20% of the country starts avoiding all doctors and medications for purely political reasons, how long until Big Pharma, the AMA and the like make their displeasure known?

Yeah, silly idea, but we're talking about people who've willingly set their brains to "stun".

Ladies, gentlemen, and others, A Modest Proposal for the 2020s.

[Labster]

Except that this is a real thing. People already believe that all diseases are fake. You forgot that this is 2021 and satire is dead.

[Bob Schroeck]

I know, it's one of the things that inspired me. They're still acknowledging that they get sick, though. The idea here is to get them to reject the very idea that they can and do get sick, and that anything can alleviate that, as a liberal hoax. That even broken bones and bleeding wounds are the result of a hoax and a conspiracy. I'm betting it's entirely possible -- and it would benefit the gene pool.

[LynnInDenver]

And when Bob acknowledges that he's not being satirical in his suggestion this time... further proof that satire is dead, and should be laid to rest.

[Matrix Dragon]

And our state government has abandoned getting Covid Zero, thanks to the state above us, and the federal governments sheer fucking deliberate incompetence, fucking over the entire continent.

*Long Sigh.*

[robkelk]

Covid Zero

All the sickness of regular Covid with none of the calories!

...

I'll be here for the rest of the week, folks!

More seriously, our provincial government has announced a press briefing for 1pm local time. Speculation is that they're going to announce a vaccine passport.

[Norgarth]

an amusing video I stumbled across recently

How Anti-Vaxxers Sound to Normal People

[GethN7]

I know, it's one of the things that inspired me.  They're still acknowledging that they get sick, though.  The idea here is to get them to reject the very idea that they can and do get sick, and that anything can alleviate that, as a liberal hoax.  That even broken bones and bleeding wounds are the result of a hoax and a conspiracy.  I'm betting it's entirely possible -- and it would benefit the gene pool.

Bob, I get your frustration, but as someone who is centrist and has friends at both ends of the pool, as it were, you are slightly off, but not by much.

What you are correct on is yes, they likely do not take COVID as seriously as they should, no question.

However, what the real problem is, from their end, is three things:

1. Most anti-vax types believe no amount of safety is a fair trade for liberty. Me, I believe in times of obvious emergency, a temporary surrender of some liberty for security until the crisis has passed is not only fair but entirely logical, pursuant to the legal arguments of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. From their view, they fear any loss of liberty being permanent and view anyone willing to meekly submit it as being naive at best and complicit in ensuring a permanent loss of liberty at worst.

2. It's not they are ignorant of the danger per se. Only the most idiot fringe deny COVID is real and potentially deadly. Rather, they are so resentful due to point 1 they'd rather go back to living normally and die breathing free air than continue to have their lives restricted and have seething contempt for anyone who gives them grief for it. Me, I still exercise due caution in public anyway as a courtesy despite being vaccinated because I took the levelheaded stance in point 1.

3. Due to the absolute polarization of politics these days, and in light of what I mentioned in the first two points, they would take your satire as unironic proof you hate them, want them all dead, and they'd return the sentiment. I think taking things that far is unreasonable for anyone, no one needs to be killed over mere differing views, but from their perspective, they believe if you could kill them, you would, especially if you could legally get away with it.

[nocarename]

Everyone has the right to swing their fists around freely until those fists start intersecting with faces and, metaphorically, I can feel their knuckles on my nose.

By refusing to vaccinate, isolate or take other basic precations such as wearing masks and minimizing contact with other people these anti-vaxxers are endangering not only themselves, but everyone around them and the people further steps away. At that point they are not a quaint and curious group that is mostly harmless, but an ongoing threat to the health and well being of the rest of the population as well.

I have a good friend who has a bum immune system. They're vaccinated, but because of that they have to continue to live like a sensible unvaccinated person until herd immunity can be reached - minimal close contacts, masks every time they leave their apartment, the works. I'd like to see them again sometime before 2023 but if we keep getting exciting new variants transmitted by a sizable unvaccinated minority, that's not going to happen.

I'd much rather these deniers changed behaviours than die, but this behaviour risks my friends, my family, my livelyhood and my neighbourhood and really just needs to stop.

[Jinx999]

I've never seen an explanation as to why taking a vaccine is an attack on your freedom that doesn't sound idiotic to me.

I can just about understand "the government can't tell me what to do", but this in on the level of deciding what side of the road to drive on by tossing a coin.

Any further explanation of why vaccines are "bad" ends up in conspiracy theories of varying degrees of contemptable.

[robkelk]

No jab, no job, City of Ottawa tells its workers

Medical exemptions only, and they have to come from a doctor or a nurse practitioner. No exemptions for religious reasons.

[Inquisitive Raven]

1. Most anti-vax types believe no amount of safety is a fair trade for liberty. Me, I believe in times of obvious emergency, a temporary surrender of some liberty for security until the crisis has passed is not only fair but entirely logical, pursuant to the legal arguments of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. From their view, they fear any loss of liberty being permanent and view anyone willing to meekly submit it as being naive at best and complicit in ensuring a permanent loss of liberty at worst.

This may be an accurate representation of right-wing anti-vaxers, or at least what they claim. Lefty anti-vaxers, by contrast, have an unrealistic notion of how safe a vaccine can be, and if a vaccine isn't perfectly safe, then it's not safe enough. Lefty anti-vaxers also seem to have an unrealistic notion of what vaccine risks actually are, but that's another issue.

[GethN7]

1. Most anti-vax types believe no amount of safety is a fair trade for liberty. Me, I believe in times of obvious emergency, a temporary surrender of some liberty for security until the crisis has passed is not only fair but entirely logical, pursuant to the legal arguments of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. From their view, they fear any loss of liberty being permanent and view anyone willing to meekly submit it as being naive at best and complicit in ensuring a permanent loss of liberty at worst.

This may be an accurate representation of right-wing anti-vaxers, or at least what they claim. Lefty anti-vaxers, by contrast, have an unrealistic notion of how safe a vaccine can be, and if a vaccine isn't perfectly safe, then it's not safe enough. Lefty anti-vaxers also seem to have an unrealistic notion of what vaccine risks actually are, but that's another issue.

Yeah, this was mostly referring to the right-leaning types. Me, I got the J&J vaccine, have been doing the sensible thing and been cautious in public just to be on the safe side, and thus far have not actually gotten it to my knowledge. Sure, I hate the social restrictions, and I admit I'm doubtful of how effective a vaccine can be for something like this (given the vaccines in question were rolled out super fast compared to other disease vaccines), but I'd prefer to not find out the nasty side of COVID, so I'll sit down, muzzle any complaints about loss of liberty and vaccine effectiveness, and just do the sensible thing to protect myself since this isn't going away anytime soon.

It's why I have a centrist view. I'm not sure if either extreme is entirely right, or if they are both wrong. I just don't want COVID either way and would prefer not to die, so I'll mask up and be cautious until directed otherwise.

[Labster]

Identical twins did everything together, except get vaccinated.  Guess what happened next.  Spoilers: one of them died.

The group of 10 employees had been careful throughout the pandemic, Bobby said. Folks were given time off to visit physicians and get tested for COVID-19. Four were vaccinated.

The problem with saying "I accept the risks" is that it's really "I accept the risks on behalf of myself and all people I come in contact with".  That the freedom they desire is an imposition on others.  I suppose that's true in most cases of freedoms -- freedom of speech means in some cases freedom to force people to listen, at least for a while, as they pass your billboard or cross your picket line.

So really, I think it's a case of not understanding the risk, or not putting equal weight on the risk as other people do.  Most of the liberty they want is the liberty to die, which is typical Ur-Fascism.  If death around you is not such a big deal, if your own death is not such a big deal (you're going to Heaven after all), then why are the masks even necessary?

[robkelk]

Six-minute video, not embeddable: Anthony Fauci on what it will take to get America vaccinated

[robkelk]

Non-embeddable video: What qualifies for a COVID-19 vaccine exemption in Canada?

[Dartz]

This just happened

Dolores Cahill needs to be locked in a cell for all the harm herself and her ilk are causing.

[RMH999]

Official Covid deaths have now passed Spanish Flu deaths in the US (690,000-675,000), making Covid-19 the worst pandemic in recent history. Unofficial numbers (Excess mortality estimates - over the 1.5 years I've been following it, the various estimates I've seen have gone from 18-33% above current fatalities. I picked 25% more as a good midpoint) have been higher for awhile at approximately 866,000 fatalities. Now as a percentage of the total population, Spanish Flu is still higher at killing 0.65% of the US population vs Covid's current 0.26%.

[Dartz]

This just happened

Dolores Cahill needs to be locked in a cell for all the harm herself and her ilk are causing.

This gentleman has now Passed

Whether being removed from the hospital for a day or so before being rushed back had any contribution, cannot be known.

[robkelk]

Albertans dying from COVID-19 at more than three times the average Canadian rate

This one province has roughly one-tenth the population of the entire country, and nearly half of the COVID-19 cases.

Premier Jason Kenney rejected calls for a "hard lockdown" during an appearance on a radio program Sunday.

That was the same day the province's former chief medical officer of health co-signed a letter sent to the current health minister strongly recommending additional measures in the province, as the pandemic's fourth wave continues to strain hospital capacity.

On Monday, the Alberta Medical Association (AMA) released a statement asking the province to institute "significant and immediate" public health measures as a "fire-breaker" to aggressively control COVID-19 cases and protect the health-care system.

[robkelk]

Canadian federal public servants, RCMP and air and rail travellers must be vaccinated by month's end

As of October 30, you won't be allowed on a plane, intercity train, or cruise ship in Canada if you don't have both your shots (or a Johnson&Johnson shot).

(Mounties and civil servants who don't have their shots go on unpaid leave as of November 12. Telework from isolation will not be offered as a substitute.)

Medical exceptions only, and not very many of those.

[Dartz]

Pandemic ends in two weeks time in Ireland. I'll finally have social events to flake on.

Footballer refuses to get vaccinated -- despite getting virus twice. And the thick cunt of the year award goes to....

Joe Duffy's liveline this afternoon was hopping with indignity. Apparently, 8 players on the Irish football panel won't take it.

Great. Don't fucking play anymore. Decisions come with consequences.

[robkelk]

Canadian federal public servants, RCMP and air and rail travellers must be vaccinated by month's end

As of October 30, you won't be allowed on a plane, intercity train, or cruise ship in Canada if you don't have both your shots (or a Johnson&Johnson shot).

(Mounties and civil servants who don't have their shots go on unpaid leave as of November 12. Telework from isolation will not be offered as a substitute.)

Medical exceptions only, and not very many of those.

And now I'm wondering how many civil servants will take early retirement effective November 12.

[LynnInDenver]

Medical exceptions only, and not very many of those.

Let me guess... documented allergy to the delivery mechanism of the shot, the vaccine would be ineffective because of a non-functional immune system, or vaccination would cause an immune system overreaction, and that's more or less it?

[robkelk]

Medical exceptions only, and not very many of those.

Let me guess... documented allergy to the delivery mechanism of the shot, the vaccine would be ineffective because of a non-functional immune system, or vaccination would cause an immune system overreaction, and that's more or less it?

I don't know whether documented allergy is on the list. The logic appears to be "If you're allergic to one transport medium, get a dose in a different transport medium for your second dose."

Other than that, I think that's what they want the list to look like, yes.