All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXIII

[Bob Schroeck]

There's a new user who wants to do a complete re-write of the page for Carl Jung as his very first edit. Including a list of references... which I've never seen on an ATT page in that format.

Could somebody who has time check this against Wikipedia and TVT, please?

Don't need to go more than a few paragraphs in -- it's at least partly plagiarized from TVT.

EDIT: I went more than a few paragraphs in. It's an odd mix. Entire paragraphs lifted directly from TVT, interleaved with original stuff. The bibliography also looks original -- it doesn't match up well to Wikipedia's equivalent, nor is it in the TVT article. We need to kick it back and point to the "No copying TV Tropes" sign on the wall.

[GethN7]

There's a new user who wants to do a complete re-write of the page for Carl Jung as his very first edit. Including a list of references... which I've never seen on an ATT page in that format.

Could somebody who has time check this against Wikipedia and TVT, please?

Yeah, looks like a copy of TV Tropes for the most part, but not all.

Before approval, I'm going to ask who they were on TV Tropes, as aside from edits, the page has one or two authors who wrote most of it, so if they are just porting it over, fine, but I want to be sure.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Topic:Wlyosyinje5ozx7s

[Umbire]

Decided to double-back and try to close/summarize the duplicate topics on this page - I'm still getting talk page errors, but otherwise some of the edits seem to go through - I can't edit the contents of the comments themselves, but topic closure and summarizing are functioning.

[robkelk]

And I got an "Internal Service Error" when replying to the one you left open... although my reply was posted.

Considering how many headaches it makes for us, are we sure we want to keep using Flow?

[GethN7]

And I got an "Internal Service Error" when replying to the one you left open... although my reply was posted.

Considering how many headaches it makes for us, are we sure we want to keep using Flow?

It's not Flow that is the problem, it's whatever the new update did that allows it to work with MW. Besides, Flow being removed would break quite a few things. The good news is that it's continuously updated, so it will be fixed ASAP.

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/maniph...r=newest#R

Based on my thimbleful of PHP knowledge and examination of the issues, Flow itself works fine. What is broken is the page update feature to register new edits and changes on flow pages. So, when you see an error message, assume it made your proposed edit (open a copy of the current window to check) just fine.

The page update feature, while working well on submitting pure text, how the base MediaWiki hooks interact with Flow got messed up when we updated to MW 1.37, so the Flow guys need to make sure they rename their own hooks so they sync to the page update feature of MediaWiki core. Apparently, they noticed the issues and are currently working on them according to the Phabricator reports.

[robkelk]

Before I say "fuck, no" to a proposed edit, I thought I should double-check: What is our policy regarding deleting workstub pages?

(IIRC, it's "we don't do that", but I can't find that written down in a quick search.)

[Bob Schroeck]

<sigh> That's ShawnTehLogoBoi trying to delete that page after it was created by me only three months ago to be the parent to a subpage he created under the wrong parent. He's previously made comments about wanting to delete the work page, and this looks like his try at doing so.

I'm rejecting the edit.

EDIT: Sheesh, kneejerk reaction without fully reading your post, Rob. Sorry for stepping on your toes. And no, we've never written down that policy. It was one of those things we never thought needed to be stated -- that the stub templates exist to direct tropers to pages that need more work, not warn of their impending doom. Likewise I don't think we ever wrote down its obvious corollary -- that work pages do not ever get deleted unless they are bogus, plagiarized, or otherwise violate wiki rules. His delete reason not only contradicts the implicit purpose of the stub templates, it comes perilously close to trying to unilaterally redefine the purpose of the stub templates -- which is to say, unilaterally deciding on policy for the wiki.

If you want me to write the "fuck no" message, I will.

In the mean time I think we need to reassess just how much trouble ShawnTehLogoBoi has been over the past few months and whether he has been worth it.

[Umbire]

Based on my thimbleful of PHP knowledge and examination of the issues, Flow itself works fine. What is broken is the page update feature to register new edits and changes on flow pages. So, when you see an error message, assume it made your proposed edit (open a copy of the current window to check) just fine.

The page update feature, while working well on submitting pure text, how the base MediaWiki hooks interact with Flow got messed up when we updated to MW 1.37, so the Flow guys need to make sure they rename their own hooks so they sync to the page update feature of MediaWiki core. Apparently, they noticed the issues and are currently working on them according to the Phabricator reports.

Can confirm - it makes actually replying to threads and starting new ones an incredible pain, though.

[robkelk]

<sigh>  That's ShawnTehLogoBoi trying to delete that page after it was created by me only three months ago to be the parent to a subpage he created under the wrong parent.  He's previously made comments about wanting to delete the work page, and this looks like his try at doing so.

I'm rejecting the edit.

EDIT:  Sheesh, kneejerk reaction without fully reading your post, Rob. Sorry for stepping on your toes. And no, we've never written down that policy.  It was one of those things we never thought needed to be stated -- that the stub templates exist to direct tropers to pages that need more work, not warn of their impending doom.  Likewise I don't think we ever wrote down its obvious corollary -- that work pages do not ever get deleted unless they are bogus, plagiarized, or otherwise violate wiki rules.  His delete reason not only contradicts the implicit purpose of the stub templates, it comes perilously close to trying to unilaterally redefine the purpose of the stub templates -- which is to say, unilaterally deciding on policy for the wiki.

If you want me to write the "fuck no" message, I will.

In the mean time I think we need to reassess just how much trouble ShawnTehLogoBoi has been over the past few months and whether he has been worth it.

Four threads on that troper's talk page, all started by mods, only one not being a message saying that this isn't how we do things around here.

I'll write that message, but I'm making it an official warning as per All The Tropes:How We Do Bans Around Here on the grounds that (s)he's "Refusing to learn from honest mistakes, or repeatedly making the same honest mistake after it's been pointed out." EDIT: No, you've already tempbanned him once. No more warnings; I'm going straight to his second tempban. RE-EDIT: And done. I've given him a list of 27 pages to read over his one-month tempban; that's one page per day with a few days left over for re-reading.

[robkelk]

Since it's become necessary... Please comment on the new draft policy for Stub Pages at this forum thread.

[Bob Schroeck]

We have hieroglyph support? Since when?

[robkelk]

We have hieroglyph support?  Since when?

I knew the extension existed, but I never saw a need to activate it... Who switched it on?

[GethN7]

We have hieroglyph support?  Since when?

I knew the extension existed, but I never saw a need to activate it... Who switched it on?

Me way back when when I revived a bunch of features we had back in the old days like Page Curation.

We can remove it easy, it causes no harm, but it might be useful for Egypt themed articles.

[robkelk]

Just noticed that I can only semi-protect "All The Tropes:Stub Pages", not fully-protect it.

Is this just something affecting my UserID rights, or does this need to be escalated to Miraheze? I'd say there's an issue if a wiki cannot fully-protect Policy pages.

[Bob Schroeck]

Let me see if I can fully protect it. I've been able to do so for other pages in the past.

EDIT: No, it's not just you. I'm only offered "only logged in users" and "all users". Something's wrong.

[GethN7]

Just noticed that I can only semi-protect "All The Tropes:Stub Pages", not fully-protect it.

Is this just something affecting my UserID rights, or does this need to be escalated to Miraheze? I'd say there's an issue if a wiki cannot fully-protect Policy pages.

I'd escalate, something broke on Miraheze's end with their fine grained permissions.

[Bob Schroeck]

Before we create a Phab ticket, can we confirm that all admins have lost the ability to lock pages beyond "all users"/"logged in users"?

[GethN7]

Before we create a Phab ticket, can we confirm that all admins have lost the ability to lock pages beyond "all users"/"logged in users"?

Yeah, same issue for me. We can safely assume it's broke IMO.

[Bob Schroeck]

Allrighty then. Done, and cc'ed everyone in (except Umbire, because I couldn't find a username for him there).

[Bob Schroeck]

On a less critical front, do we have a trope for situations like "I'm asking for a friend who totally isn't me"? I seem to recall that we do, but my search fu is failing me.

[robkelk]

On a less critical front, do we have a trope for situations like "I'm asking for a friend who totally isn't me"?  I seem to recall that we do, but my search fu is failing me.

I assume you're asking for a friend.

I Have This Friend who suggests I Have This Friend might be what you're looking for.

[Bob Schroeck]

Heh. Thanks. Exactly what I was looking for, except I was looking for things like "a friend wants to know".

[Umbire]

Allrighty then.  Done, and cc'ed everyone in (except Umbire, because I couldn't find a username for him there).

'cause I ain't on there! (Yet.)

[Bob Schroeck]

Ah, well, that would explain it.

[Umbire]

Remedied!

Now, question: How do you handle transcripts? Do I insert them in the recap section or as a subpage to the recap page or...