Phoenix of the Grand Banks -- plotbunny/research stage

[Foxboy]

Having reread Island in the Sea of Time and the 1632 series, an idea occurred to me:
How about one of these "Alien Space Bat" plots with the transported folks from the past coming to the present?
Happily bubbling away in the back of my mind, I picked an event with a controllable number of folks of diverse backgrounds... kind of.
Premise: Alien Space Bats cause a "ring of fire" that transports the RMS Titanic from the night of April 14, 1912, (in its own universe) to the night of April 14, 200x (in a universe where the Titanic sank).
Now, before I can get to the wonderful drama of these early 20th century class-stratified folks adjusting to the "chaotic" modern age, I need to figure out the consequences of the arrival. I'd need to figure out how long the old ship can cruise around without realizing anything's wrong except a "damned strange weather phenomenon last night, wot?" And just what modern ship will encounter Titanic first.
I'd like it to be the Queen Mary 2 on its own transatlantic crossing, but I'd also need to realize how long it would be before the Titanic was picked up on radar, etc, getting the various Coast Guards riled up when it only has a Morse spark-gap "wireless" system or semaphore for communication...
And exactly how the US Coast Guard WOULD react...
If you folks still have the link to that author's resource blog for me to ask such questions, that would be swell.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Wiregeek]

http://community.livejournal.com/little_details ?
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[M Fnord]

The community you (probably) want is http://community.livejournal.com/little_details/. I think.

A quick google on marine radar suggests that Titanic would be visible on radar from ~20-30 miles, give or take a few depending on who's doing the imaging.

Also, it might be more ironic if it was a C-130 from the International Ice Patrol that made the first sighting. Just sayin'.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[ordnance11]

It probably would be the Ice Patrol..from their flight profile they fly at 6 to 8000 ft. If they pick up a hard contact, and they can distiniguish between a
ship and a berg. They may vector the HC-130 for a look see. Now if they see an ocean-liner where it's not supposed to be one. What happens next.?

Of course, if the Titanic struck a berg again. tt would be interesting. The CG won't be able to handle a rescue of that magnitude alone. If there is a CV
task force heading back to port that's within say 8 hours, it would be interesting. You could do a long range shuttle SAR.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Wiregeek]

or, for an in-joke, it could be the Asuka or the Crystal Serenity, both real-world cruise ships operating today.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[Foxboy]

Never mind that the Asuka II had a memorable disaster of its own, eh? According to Wikipedia, it had the exact OPPOSITE problem and outcome: the ship caught fire, and the captain was well-regarded for getting everyone off the boat without injury.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Wiregeek]

the ship caught fire, and the captain was well-regarded for getting everyone off the boat without injury.

AAAHAHAHAHAAH

The ship caught fire.. because of the power-wash from the Ring of Fire!

Everyone got off the boat OK.. because the Titanic was right there to pick them up!

well, I like it.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[Foxboy]

That puts the Titanic in the Indian Ocean, though. As cute as bringing modern people aboard the Titanic (and their reactions) would be, I kind of want the
Titanic to steam into New York City, as planned back in 1912... But the Coast Guard may bring it somewhere there's a good drydock... gotta meet current
safety regs y'know...

So, somewhere in Jersey, Baltimore, or Florida?
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Wiregeek]

Florida provides some interesting possibilities for anachronistic head-slappery, namely..

Victorian-Era Sensibilities Vs. Modern Bikini Girls.

Victorian-Era Sensibilities Vs. The Fat Man In The Speedo

First-class denizens first encounter with cocaine..

_anyone's_ first encounter with automobiles, aircraft, cellphones (hell, phones, period), radio..
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[Jinx999]

I've posted a link and the first post to the S M Stirling list. I'll let you know if I get any interesting replies.

[drakensis]

Wiredgeek wrote:

---

Florida provides some interesting possibilities for anachronistic head-slappery, namely..




Victorian-Era Sensibilities Vs. Modern Bikini Girls.




Victorian-Era Sensibilities Vs. The Fat Man In The Speedo




First-class denizens first encounter with cocaine..




_anyone's_ first encounter with automobiles, aircraft, cellphones (hell, phones, period), radio..

Automobiles: cars were first sold in 1885, 27 years before the Titanic

Aircraft: The Wright brothers flew in 1903, 9 years before the Titanic

Cellphones / Phones : telephones were invented in 1876, 36 years before the Titanic

Radio: the first radio station started transmitting in 1887, 15 years before the Titanic - and there was a radio aboard

Granted that quite a number of those aboard would have had relatively limited exposure to them and the changes would be notable, but the reactions would
probably not be that pronounced. Of course, it's possible that 21st century individuals might expect them to be surprised, but by analogy it would be like
one of us turning up in star trek and having someone painstakingly explain what a shuttle was: they might not look a hell of a lot like the ones we've seen
or heard of, but we wouldn't assume it's witchcraft or the like.

Now what might be interesting would be reactions to things like the War on Drugs (drugs were completely legal in the UK until the First World War), prices
(inflation was hardly unknown but the dollar and pound are virtually worthless today compared to what they were worth 96 years ago) etc. Cultural changes are
more likely to have an impact than technological, given that they were already in a relatively progressive era in that field.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Jinx999]

Not that many comments on the Titanic, but quite a few ideas for similar scenarios:
1)Lots of potential fun with this idea, though some should be explored on the Eye
(9/11/08: the Day the Towers Returned [from one minute before the first
impact...the planes do no come with them]).
Less currently political
possibilities:
The Constitutional Convention arrives today.
The Mayflower
arrives today.
The Spanish Armada appears in the English Channel expecting to
invade the England of Queen Elizabeth I.
The Mongol Invasion of Japan gets
blown to now.
The Japanese invasion fleet aimed at Pearl Harbor arrives
today.
Lots of fun:-)
Jason B.
2)
> Now, before I can get to the wonderful drama of these early 20th century

> class-stratified folks adjusting to the "chaotic" modern age, I need to

> figure out the consequences of the arrival. I'd need to figure out how
long
> the old ship can cruise around without realizing anything's wrong
except a
> "damned strange weather phenomenon last night, wot?" And just
what modern
> ship will encounter Titanic first.
two possibilites
for the first modern vessel:
a C-130 of the coast guard on international
iceberg patrol circling
around the titanic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Ice_Patrol
or
the fully loaded Emma Maersk tearing past the titanic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Maersk
>
I'd like it to be the Queen Mary 2 on its own transatlantic crossing, but

> I'd also need to realize how long it would be before the Titanic was
picked
> up on radar, etc, getting the various Coast Guards riled up when
it only has
> a Morse spark-gap "wireless" system or semaphore for
communication...
a spark-gap radio is sure to get someone angry
3)
Any mid-Atlantic slave ship showing up at port in the 21st century,
with
human cargo intact.
Columbus on his first voyage arrives today.  Or
better yet, Columbus
on any subsequent voyage to the Americas arrives in the
21st century.
Pope Benedict XVI switches place with Pope Urban VIII as
Galileo's
trial gets underway.
WWII Luftwaffe squadron appears over
modern London (although that
might be too easy: the Luftwaffe is escorted
down after the first RAF
jet interceptors show up, and the pilots are
debriefed and sent back
to Germany) OR Rommel's Afrika Korps sent forward to
modern Libya and
Egypt.  A WWI or WWII German U-boat showing up in the north
Atlantic
shipping lanes in 2008 might be more problematic, at least until
the
first modern naval vessels are encountered.
Custer's 7th Cavalry
brought forward just before Little Bighorn
starts.  Bonus points if they
show up in a modern Indian
reservation. ;-)
4)

I can see escalating hysteria on the part of the Coast Guard once
they
spot a rather large ship making for New York that doesn't respond to
any
standard radio communications....
I have this mental picture of
Captain Smith and Mr Ismay, already
rattled by the helicopters that've been
buzzing the ship for a few
hours, unloading both barrels of full Edwardian
indignation on the
junior officer in charge of the boarding party after a
cutter has
ordered them to heave-to for inspection. Emphatic demands to speak
to
someone from the British Consulate will be the least of it
*Lots* of
opportunity for comedy-of-manners and massive culture shock,
and the
situation will turn into a full-blown circus when the press gets
hold of it

5)
- Have some Viking ships arrive in modern York, with everyone thinking
it's
reenactors.
- Move the Trinity Test Site from July 16, 1945 05:29:45 to
July 16,
2008 05:29:45.
- Have Napoleon escape Elba to modern France.
-
Have Washington cross the Delaware into Trenton, NJ during morning
rush
hour.
- Have the Peasant's Crusade ferried across the Bosporus into
the
Republic of Turkey with a burning desire to kill the infidels.
- Have
Pancho Villa run into the Border Patrol.
6)
Though there's a lot of fun with other scenarios in the region. How
about
having a large Byzantine Army of around 100,000 from the
Bulgarian wars get
transported to 1821, at the start of the Greek War
of Independence?
7)
Colosseum brought forward--with all spectators, gladiators, etc.--from
107
AD (Trajan's victory celebrations) to modern Rome
All combatants at
Battle of Gettysburg brought forward just as the fun
is about to start to
modern town of Gettysburg
D-Day invasion force hits beach of modern
France
Enola Gay brought forward to August 6, 2008 to drop bomb on
Hiroshima. 
In this timeline, Hiroshima was never bombed--the Enola Gay was

presumed to have been shot down when it never returned--but the
follow-
up attack on Nagasaki succeeded in ending the war.

[Foxboy]

Where is this forum btw? I be interested.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Jinx999]

It's an email discussion list for fans of S M Stirling. Stirling@yahoogroups.com

It can be very busy though.

[Bob Schroeck]

The Japanese invasion fleet aimed at Pearl Harbor arrives today.

Ah, the inverse of The Final Countdown (which, even as a kid, I thought was the biggest wimpout time travel movie I'd ever seen).

Move the Trinity Test Site from July 16, 1945 05:29:45 to July 16, 2008 05:29:45.

Instant World War III!

All combatants at Battle of Gettysburg brought forward just as the fun is about to start to modern town of Gettysburg

Oh, my. Especially if the calendar date coincides, since there are often recreationists there then, as I understand it...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[drakensis]

For complete upheavel at Gettysburg, take the 40,000 participants of the July 3rd 1913, all of whom were Civil War veterans, and place them in 1863 carrying
out Pickett's Charge and the defense (removing the actual soldiers involved on both sides). Since the re-enactment ended with the charging Confederate
veterans shaking hands across the high water mark with their Union counterparts, this would probably confuse the generals on both sides, not to mention what
the re-enactors would think - all elderly men now realising that the War that was their history was now raging again.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Black Aeronaut]

Uhm, Drake? Wasn't Gettysburg the -LAST- battle of the Civil War? Cited for being one that wouldn't have occurred if only the messenger had gotten
there with the cease hostilities orders had caught up with them soon enough?

[Valles]

Uhm, Drake? Wasn't Gettysburg the -LAST- battle of the Civil War? Cited
for being one that wouldn't have occurred if only the messenger had
gotten
there with the cease hostilities orders had caught up with them soon
enough?

Um, no.
I think you're thinking of the Battle of New Orleans - which was in the wrong war, besides.
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[drakensis]

Valles wrote:

---

Uhm, Drake? Wasn't Gettysburg the -LAST- battle of the Civil War? Cited for being one that wouldn't have occurred if only the messenger had gotten
there with the cease hostilities orders had caught up with them soon enough?

Um, no.




I think you're thinking of the Battle of New Orleans - which was in the wrong war, besides.

That is correct. The Battle of New Orleans in 1812 took place after peace between the United States and Great Britain had been agreed in Europe.

Gettysburg was the bloodiest single battle of the Civil War (roughly five percent of the total losses on both sides for the entire war took place over those
three days) but the war lasted almost another two years.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Foxboy]

Battle of New Orleans was actually in 1814, as per the song. But Yes, it was fought after the treaty was signed ending the "War of 1812" in America
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll