Dead Bang random thought

[Dragonflight]

With the disguise element (which only makes sense, as the girls should be *instantly* recognizable to the friends they save on a regular basis otherwise), the
folks at IDEC could have Makoto in a quiet little "get to know our on-site staff" interview with a concealed video camera running, compare a video
shot they may have acquired by that point of Sailor Jupiter in action, and decide, No, this isn't the same person.
---
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

[deadpan29]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Beyond that, most anime drawings are very simplistic representations of the human face, so IDing a real person from an anime representation of them is
likely to be harder than you might think.

A partially facetious example: Excluding costume, could you ID Jupiter from the live action Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon based on the
animated version?

I was thinking about the Men In Black cartoon. (Not anime, but the principle applies.) If you had never seen and didn't know anything about the movies,
I doubt you would be able to connect the cartoon versions of J and K to Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones.
----------
No, I don't believe the world has gone mad.  In order for it to go mad it would need to have been sane at some point.

[Bob Schroeck]

Good point. An even more extreme example: The Real Ghostbusters vs. the guys in the movies.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

An even more extreme example: The Real Ghostbusters vs. the guys in the movies.

Which I recall was lampshaded in a cartoon episode where the Ghostbusters were approached about a movie. "Who are those guys? They don't look anything like us!"
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Ebony]

robkelk wrote:

---

An even more extreme example: The Real Ghostbusters vs. the guys in the movies.

Which I recall was lampshaded in a cartoon episode where the Ghostbusters were approached about a movie. "Who are those guys? They
don't look anything like us!"

"Acroyd, Ramis, and Murray? Sounds like a law firm!"
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Necratoid]

Especially considering Makoto from the anime is drawn as a caucasion and presumably actual Makoto would be Asian.

While Moon, Mercury, and Mars are Asian enough (considering anime hair color rules), Venus is probably half Japanese/half English... Jupiter always came
across to me as not Japanese (even if its because of not japanese blood a generation or two back shining through). That would explain the height, why people
kept picking fights with her (she kept getting kicked out of schools for being in fights she mostly didn't start (I got the impression the rest were
jumping bullies in the act of bullying). She just lets off a giant 'Not one of us, not one of us' vibe that sets off the hostility the Japanese
historically have against those not Japanese. The only reason she got to stay in school in Juban is that she got in with an 'in' crowd and thus would
be considered off limits. Which is why Mercury wasn't hosed for being a nerd, she got into an 'in' group and was off limits. Granted Moon may
have an 'in' click largely because of ancient intervention of a certain life force eating gem stone, but they had an 'in' group to be part
of.

Without Moon, Mars and Venus aren't going to end up involved with the other's unless its because they are Senshi. Withot the Senshi factor they just
aren't going to fit in with the two outcasts of Mercury and Jupiter. Those two could end up together on the fringes, but just wouldn't end up with the
other two without an outside binding agent.

Seriously Jupiter is class 2-4 bait and in another series is unknowingly hoping Onizuka is going to replace her last burned ot homeroom teacher. So yes, I
do think she'd look white in a realistic live action.

[Bob Schroeck]

I can't remember any details, but I seem to recall a fic years back that suggested that Makoto was half-American...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Folks, this discussion about Makoto makes a big difference for a couple of scenes in LoGG, at least one of which I consider important. Is everyone speculating here, or does somebody have something in canon to back up the idea?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Necratoid]

I'm giving off a reasoned opinion, that explains somethings I noticed watching the series... as far as I know they only mention that her parents died in a
plane crash. They show Ami's mom, Moon's parents, and I think they show Rei's dad at least at some point. If they show Venus' parents its
probably in her Sailor V. manga. They don't cover what Jupiter's parents looklike to my knowledge. That she is 5'09-5'11 in middle school
tells me she isn't purely Japanese. That she is kicked out of so many schools for fighting means she gets in lots of fights and that the blame always
falls on her shoulders. Since they ignored the bullying in the first place and only responded her stopping it that wreaks of political decision. Considering
just how many anime show Japanese teachers as useless at best, purposefully malignant and/or favoring whatever shuts up the most people at average makes this a
likely case. The nail that sticks up is hammered and all... GTO exists for a reason.

I'm sure you can Wiki up the info if you bother looking around... but there is more corroborating this theory than opposing it.

[Epsilon]

robkelk wrote:

---

Folks, this discussion about Makoto makes a big difference for a couple of scenes in LoGG, at least one of which I
consider important. Is everyone speculating here, or does somebody have something in canon to back up the idea?

Is this version of Makoto from the anime or the manga, because that makes a difference. The manga goes into a lot more detail on the girls various
personal and family histories then we ever see in the anime. The anime, for example, never even mentions that Makoto's parents or dead much less how they
died (we never see her parents, but then we never see Minako's either). Ami's mother only appears in the manga etc.

It is true that in the anime at least Makoto ends up getting ostracized a lot because, basically she's tall. Apparently despite her... *ahem*
"talents" the fact that she is tall is enough to land her in instant "undateable land" for the rest of eternity (there are several episodes
which revolve around the fact she can't get a date to save her life). However neither series mentions, in specific what her heritage is.

Assuming she's mixed-breed would be one explanation.

The other would be that she looks just like a magical princess from Jupiter who lived millenia ago and thus her parents genes had very little effect on her
(honestly where does Usagi get blonde hair from in her family?).

Minako, if you go buy the manga, is pureblood Japanese. But the manga didn't have her in England at all (it takes place in Juuban and actually featured
cameos by the pre-reawakened Inners).

---------------

Epsilon

[Foxboy]

Another point. Makoto could have Ainu blood. There are, according to some reports, some Ainu whose families have never left Japan since the prehistoric
migration to the islands or interbred with foreigners at all who look positively like the "Ai no ko" near US military bases. Or so I've heard.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[ECSNorway]

The reason they never show Makoto's parents is that they're dead, as I recall, before the series even begins. She lives alone.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Bob Schroeck]

Rob Kelk said:

does somebody have something in canon to back up the idea?

IHNC, IJLSAM. (I have no canon, I just like saying American Makoto. ) In fact, if PGSM's casting is any indication, Makoto is just as 100% Japanese as anyone else in the series.

Necratoid said:

That she is 5'09-5'11 in middle school

Do you have a source for that? In my research notes for the Sailor Moon Step, I have a table of the girls' height/weight/age/birthdate/grade/school circa 1994, two years after the first season, and Makoto is listed as 5'6"; she seems so much taller because everyone else is tiny, ranging from around 5' to 5'4" -- Usagi in particular is 4'11". Of the senshi, only Haruka (who is also 5'6") and Setsuna (5'8") don't look tiny next to her. I believe this table is canon, but I foolishly did not copy a source reference to my notes file to go with it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[s3yang]

http://zaxxon.freeshell.org/ffml/Char_I ... eries.html has a list of sailor
moon heights. Though, this one has her Setsuna at 5'6, and Haruka at 5'8.

Man, though, if Usagi +is+ only 4'11", she'd be what the phrase 'I thought you'd be taller' was made for. The entire series generally
seems to make her seem... taller.

[Ebony]

s3yang wrote:

---

http://zaxxon.freeshell.org/ffml/Char_I ... eries.html has
a list of sailor moon heights. Though, this one has her Setsuna at 5'6, and Haruka at 5'8.




Man, though, if Usagi +is+ only 4'11", she'd be what the phrase 'I thought you'd be taller' was made for. The entire series
generally seems to make her seem... taller.

A side-effect of the Moon Power makeup whatsit, maybe? Or, to put it in the words of Doug Henning, "It's maaaaaaaagic."

...or she wears lifts in her shoes. Do I know? I don't watch Sailor Moon.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

In the Codename wa Sailor V manga (which is played much more for comedy than any other incarnation of the series), we see Minako's parents.

They look EXACTLY like Usagi's.

(And while she never goes to England in that version, the finale does take place in China.)

--Sam

"MALLET SLAVE!"

[WengFook]

Gosh. What if ALL of the parents looked like Usagi's :O Cloned parents as one final step to help the senshi protect their civillian identities at home
_________________________________
Take Your Candle, Go Light Your World.

[Bob Schroeck]

http://zaxxon.freeshell.org/ffml/Char_I ... eries.html has a list of sailor moon heights.

Hm. Looks to be sampled from a different point in the storyline, since my table has a 5'0" Hotaru. Here's my table, which is likely to come out looking wonky because it's tab-delimited.

Senshi stats circa 1994 (first season is 1992)

Name Height Weight Height Weight Age Birthday Grade School
Tsukino Usagi 150 cm 43.1 kg 4' 11" 95 lbs 15/16 06/30/78 10 Juuban HS, Juuban
Mizuno Ami 157 cm 49.9 kg 5' 2" 110 lbs 15/16 09/10/78 10 Juuban HS, Juuban
Hino Rei 160 cm 51.7 kg 5' 3" 114 lbs 15/16 04/17/78 10 Juuban HS, Juuban
Kino Makoto 168 cm 55.3 kg 5' 6" 122 lbs 15/16 12/05/78 10 Juuban HS, Juuban
Aino Minako 152 cm 47.6 kg 5' 0" 105 lbs 15/16 10/22/78 10 Juuban HS, Juuban
Chiba Mamoru 188 cm 79.4 kg 6' 2" 175 lbs 19/20 08/03/74 2yr University, Juuban
Meioh Setsuna 168 cm 56.2 kg 5' 6" 124 lbs 20/21 10/29/75 -- -none-
Tenoh Haruka 173 cm 57.2 kg 5' 8" 126 lbs 16/16 01/27/78 11 Juuban HS, Juuban
Kaioh Michiru 163 cm 54.4 kg 5' 4" 120 lbs 16/16 03/06/78 11 Juuban HS, Juuban
Tomoe Hotaru 152 cm 43.5 kg 5' 0" 96 lbs 13/13 01/06/81 8 Juuban JrH, Juuban
Chibi-Usa 132 cm 29.5 kg 4' 4" 65 lbs 9 unknown 4 Juuban Elementary

(Yeah, it looks wonky. But I'm too lazy to hand-correct it. Sorry.)
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[s3yang]

Mmm, yeah, that's further along than the one I found by a bit. Here's another website who's source sound fairly official:

http://www.sailorenergy.net/HowToDraw/H ... ights.html

Apparently taken from the Sailor Moon RPG. It also has Hotaru as a younger age however.

[Bob Schroeck]

Nice. I've grabbed a copy of that pic as a reference. The art is clearly not original, though... everyone seems far less "willowy" than they
appear in either the manga or the anime.

Anyway, we're far, far off the original topic -- which was Rob's query about Makoto's ethnic background. I'll repeat what I know -- the
American thing was, as far as I know, simple fan speculation.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

Anyway, we're far, far off the original topic -- which was Rob's query about Makoto's ethnic background. I'll repeat what I know -- the American thing was, as far as I know, simple fan speculation.

I realized today that, in this case, canon doesn't matter. There's no character named "Douglas Quincy Sangnoir" in canon Sailor Moon, after all.

So... Bob, in your universe, is Makoto pure-Japanese or a "half"? If she's a "half", does she look Japanese?

I suspect Ian would like to know for Dead Bang, too. (There - the thread has now been dragged, kicking and screaming, all the way back on-topic!)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[robkelk]

...or she wears lifts in her shoes.

If true, that's something she has in common with the Knight Sabers - the ability to run while wearing high heels.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

So... Bob, in your universe, is Makoto pure-Japanese or a "half"?

Rob, as far as I am concerned, Makoto is pure Japanese. (And if she weren't, I suspect we would have seen different casting in PGSM.

If true, that's something she has in common with the Knight Sabers

And Sailor Mars, too...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Dragonflight]

Given that she looks pure Japanese in PGSM (seen a handful of episodes), it makes sense that the senshi are in fact Japanese. Although I do like the idea that
Venus may have some American ancestry in there somewhere, unless her having blonde hair is a reflection of her origin, and their parents' genes actually
have no say in what they look like. Because as any geneticist could tell you, if her mother and father both have dark hair, Usagi doesn't have blonde hair
unless he's either dyeing it, or one of them isn't the natural parent.

So it could be argued that where the Senshi and Moon Princess are concerned, their parents have no bearing on their appearance. Which is probably a cause of at
least a few raised eyebrows in their extended families when large get-togethers happen.

I think of all the interpretations, Makoto might be most amused by PGSM, simply because it portrays Luna as a stuffed toy.

But with the interference effect running, Makoto might record on tape as having different facial features, and maybe a few centimeters more height than she
actually has. It would mean that even if you had her standing right in front of you with a picture in hand, you're likely to dismiss the idea that
she's the same person.

Also, noticed in the chapter, I wasn't entirely clear about how Makoto was handling the job she's taking. I'll cover that in greater detail in
Chapter Seven. But basically, she's applying to one of the construction companies. And with one of Ami's programs running, she can have it write up
such an amazing resume for her that she's an automatic 'in'.

As for actual training... how hard can it be to use a boomer-musculature-based power lifter (think the giant machine from Aliens). Makoto by this point is an
immortal protector of Crystal Tokyo and probably much older than she appears. She's probably got similar experience at *some* point in her vast career to
draw upon.
---
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

[Black Aeronaut]

Yeah, but isn't their world mostly magically driven anyways? Sure, they'd probably have something very similar to a boomer-based cargo loader, but it
still ain't the same since you're dealing with tech bases that are as different as night and day.