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The problem with that idea is that the 'dark age' was mostly confined to Barrayar. The wormhole that their original colonization expedition used was
the only one that collapsed, that we know of.
Most of the rest of the galaxy was unaffected.
That said, there's nothing to say a creche ship can't have gone astray anyway. 
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
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Face it - you just want Admiral Naismith to meet Admiral Spoor.
Otoh - the universes are significantly different (timeline, technology, astrogation and politics, most noticably) and it'd be difficult to make them
compatable.
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The Abh still use wormholes to go from one point to another. Maybe different drives methodology, but when you're talking about 500 years divergence, eh.
The Vorkosigan universe uses plasma ship weaponry and fusion shells. The Abh uses railguns and missles. Not too divergent technologies. Hell, some forces in
the Abh universe still use gunpowder small arms
As for polities and politics...the Abh were a bio engineered race designed for a life of deep space...same as the quaddies. Also the mother of the current
Cetagandan Emperor (Empress Lisbeth) had the goal of separating the Cetagandan into to competing halves. Now who is to say a previous ruler some generations
back had the same idea and managed to do it on the black.
Admiral Naismith..or Lord Auditor Vorkorsigan..meets Admiral Spoor....heheh
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Quote: ordnance11 wrote:
The Abh still use wormholes to go from one point to another. Maybe different drives methodology, but when you're talking about 500 years divergence, eh.
The Vorkosigan universe uses plasma ship weaponry and fusion shells. The Abh uses railguns and missles. Not too divergent technologies. Hell, some forces in
the Abh universe still use gunpowder small arms
As for polities and politics...the Abh were a bio engineered race designed for a life of deep space...same as the quaddies. Also the mother of the current
Cetagandan Emperor (Empress Lisbeth) had the goal of separating the Cetagandan into to competing halves. Now who is to say a previous ruler some generations
back had the same idea and managed to do it on the black.
The major astrogation difference is that Vorkosigan universe uses point to point wormoles, creating a chain of locations. The Abh wormholes lead into planar
space - and then you can go anywhere. These result in very different strateigic situations. As for politics - the Vorkosigan universe is filled with largely
independant worlds with radically different internal politics. The Abh universe has a choice of two different empires (the nominally democratic but with no
tolerance for difference, disent or genetic engineering United Mankind or the feudal but hands off Humankind Empire Abh), independant worlds will be swallowed
up by one or the other.
You could easily place an Abh like race of posthumans into the Vorkosiganverse and creating an isolated and recently recontacted world in the Abhverse would
be even easier (Jinto's from one for starters), but you'd have to be careful and not just try and merge the two universe's without thinking of the
consequences. For instance, the Abh are arguably better than the United Mankind, but are a bunch of imperialistic warmongers by Barrayar standards.
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Quote: Jinx999 wrote:
Quote: ordnance11 wrote:
The Abh still use wormholes to go from one point to another. Maybe different drives methodology, but when you're talking about 500 years divergence,
eh. The Vorkosigan universe uses plasma ship weaponry and fusion shells. The Abh uses railguns and missles. Not too divergent technologies. Hell, some
forces in the Abh universe still use gunpowder small arms
As for polities and politics...the Abh were a bio engineered race designed for a life of deep space...same as the quaddies. Also the mother of the current
Cetagandan Emperor (Empress Lisbeth) had the goal of separating the Cetagandan into to competing halves. Now who is to say a previous ruler some
generations back had the same idea and managed to do it on the black.
The major astrogation difference is that Vorkosigan universe uses point to point wormoles, creating a chain of locations. The Abh wormholes lead into planar
space - and then you can go anywhere. These result in very different strateigic situations. As for politics - the Vorkosigan universe is filled with largely
independant worlds with radically different internal politics. The Abh universe has a choice of two different empires (the nominally democratic but with no
tolerance for difference, disent or genetic engineering United Mankind or the feudal but hands off Humankind Empire Abh), independant worlds will be
swallowed up by one or the other.
You could easily place an Abh like race of posthumans into the Vorkosiganverse and creating an isolated and recently recontacted world in the Abhverse would
be even easier (Jinto's from one for starters), but you'd have to be careful and not just try and merge the two universe's without thinking of
the consequences. For instance, the Abh are arguably better than the United Mankind, but are a bunch of imperialistic warmongers by Barrayar standards.
You can make the case of the drive the Abh uses to be an improvement over the dirtsiders. They do have a "third eye" which is
similar to the implants that jump pilots on the Vorkosigan uses..only much more better. They do need a wormhole to enter "planar space", but they can
pop out of it at any point of their choosing. I get the feeling from the anime that the United Mankind does not have an equivalent capability and need to go
point to point..which is probably the reason why the Abh where defending a wormhole point in Battleflag of the Stars.
As for the Abh being a bunch of imperialistic warmongers by Barrayan/Cetagandan standards..heheh. The Cetangandans conquered Barrayar in Pyotor's
Vorkorsigan's time and also did the same with the Marilac system in Mile's time. Aral Vorkorsigan conquered Komarr and was 2IC and later head of the
expedition to take Escobar. Both empires calling the Abh warmongers is like the kettle calling the pot black, no?
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Quote: ordnance11 wrote:
You can make the case of the drive the Abh uses to be an improvement over the dirtsiders. They do have a "third eye" which is similar to the
implants that jump pilots on the Vorkosigan uses..only much more better. They do need a wormhole to enter "planar space", but they can pop out of
it at any point of their choosing. I get the feeling from the anime that the United Mankind does not have an equivalent capability and need to go point to
point..which is probably the reason why the Abh where defending a wormhole point in Battleflag of the Stars.
As for the Abh being a bunch of imperialistic warmongers by Barrayan/Cetagandan standards..heheh. The Cetangandans conquered Barrayar in Pyotor's
Vorkorsigan's time and also did the same with the Marilac system in Mile's time. Aral Vorkorsigan conquered Komarr and was 2IC and later head of the
expedition to take Escobar. Both empires calling the Abh warmongers is like the kettle calling the pot black, no?
As far as I can tell, they both act in the same way - remember that the Gosroth was attacked in planar space - through a sord the UM had spent a
decade moving to range of a system. The Abh third eye is used to interface with their computers - which gives them a serious advantage when piloting. And I was
quite specific in calling the Abh imperialistic by Barrayar standards. Barrayar conquered Komarr because ortherwise they were stateigically f**ked and another
uninhabited world. The Abh fully intend to claim the entire galaxy and monopalise space travel. They may be less imperialistic than Cetenegans - I don't
know enough about them - but they make Barrayar look like Beta.
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Quote: Jinx999 wrote:
Quote: ordnance11 wrote:
You can make the case of the drive the Abh uses to be an improvement over the dirtsiders. They do have a "third eye" which is similar to the
implants that jump pilots on the Vorkosigan uses..only much more better. They do need a wormhole to enter "planar space", but they can pop out of
it at any point of their choosing. I get the feeling from the anime that the United Mankind does not have an equivalent capability and need to go point to
point..which is probably the reason why the Abh where defending a wormhole point in Battleflag of the Stars.
As for the Abh being a bunch of imperialistic warmongers by Barrayan/Cetagandan standards..heheh. The Cetangandans conquered Barrayar in Pyotor's
Vorkorsigan's time and also did the same with the Marilac system in Mile's time. Aral Vorkorsigan conquered Komarr and was 2IC and later head of
the expedition to take Escobar. Both empires calling the Abh warmongers is like the kettle calling the pot black, no?
As far as I can tell, they both act in the same way - remember that the Gosroth was attacked in planar space - through a sord the UM had spent a
decade moving to range of a system. The Abh third eye is used to interface with their computers - which gives them a serious advantage when piloting. And I
was quite specific in calling the Abh imperialistic by Barrayar standards. Barrayar conquered Komarr because ortherwise they were stateigically f**ked and
another uninhabited world. The Abh fully intend to claim the entire galaxy and monopalise space travel. They may be less imperialistic than Cetenegans - I
don't know enough about them - but they make Barrayar look like Beta.
I remember the Gosroth being attacked in planar space..but forgot about the UM towing a sord into range..someone will have to explain on how you
can tow a space/time anomaly to me.
As for the Abh being less imperialistc than the Cetagandans..I'd say they're just as imperialistic as them. The Cetagandan Empire has 3 castes. The
ruling class are the haut. The warrior class are the ghem. The servitor class are the ba. And the ghem are dammed agressive.
The interesting about the Abh is that their method of conquest resembles Victorian England's mode (or the Tokugawa's) mode of imperialism. Day to day
affairs are left to their subjects.And no Abh occupiers. But the Abh has military control of the high ground. The Cetagandans do occupy their conquests. With
resulting frictions.
So as far as imperialistic urges go...I'd say the neighbors of all three empires would consider it only a matter of degree.
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I honestly don't know how Abh expansionism compares with Cetengan expansionism (except the Abh empire is a LOT bigger). They are definitely less hard on
their conquests. However, they don't see any reason, short of physical difficulty, not to conquer a planet. They are much more imperialistic than Barrayar.
One of the themes in the Vor saga is that Barrayar gets a somewhat unfair bad press. They are not out for conquest.
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Barrayar gets somewhat unfair bad press? Barrayar deserves the bad press it gets. Aral Vorkorsigan's commissar ordered the murder about 95% of Komarr's
ruling class during the invasion of the system. I grant you, that Aral shot him afterward, but the damage was done. Escobaran female military personnel were
raped during the invasion of that system..by guess who? Barrayan military attacked a quaddie holding facility during an escalation of nerves in the last book.
Barrayan military has a tendency to shoot first and let God sort them out...most of the time.
Your typical Barrayan jock is a chauvisnistic/xeno-mutaphobe. Cordelia, Aral, Gregor and other progressives are trying to turn that around, but that's a
job that will take generations
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Quote: Your typical Barrayan jock is a chauvisnistic/xeno-mutaphobe.
Thank the Cetas for a lot of that. They invaded Barrayar -- with Komarran help, and after Komarr had been strangling
Barrayar's trade for decades, so the Komarrans deserved to be invaded in their turn -- spent twenty years and 5 million Barrayaran lives
trying to turn Barrayar into a Cetagandan fiefdom and source of material for genetic manipulation projects, and nuked a promising city of half a million
people. Any culture that wasn't at least a bit xenophobic after that, I'd call pathologically easy-going. And the Cetas' taste for
genetic experiments probably contributed to Barrayaran mutaphobia, although it certainly didn't create it.
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Note that I said somewhat. Barrayar is definitely not nice, but isn't as bad as it's portrayed in Betan TV series.
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A bunny I just might work on when I'm not working on my Code Geass fic:
A Touhou Project story set around the events leading up to Mountain of Faith and Subterranean Animism... ...as told from the perspective of the goddesses and
priestess of the Moriya Shrine and the inhabitants of Youkai Mountain.
Extra bonus points for: playing up the contrast between Sanae and Reimu's personalities.
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
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