Watchmen Movie Plotbunny (SPOILERS AWAY!)

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

Nite Owl's Journal, March 25, 1992

There was a time when Adrian could claim to be the smartest man on Earth and be, for the most part, believed.

It was never true. He thought big, I'll grant you, but he never really bothered to consider anything beyond the most obvious results of his actions.
Rorschach's journal was just the beginning.

We were lucky there; even when people started to take the Frontiersman seriously, no one wanted to go back to the brink. We were all fully occupied putting
the world back together, too terrified of how close we'd come to losing it all... and then, of course, too busy dealing with the further fallout from
Adrian's attack.

He really should have thought it through. At first I thought he had, that this was another intended result of the bombs, but then I remembered how he'd
tried to stop Jon that day in Karnak. I asked Adrian about it, after he'd turned himself in to the tribunal. He was as surprised as the rest of us. It
never even occurred to him that subjecting fifty million people to the Intrinsic Field Subtractor might, just might,
turn up a few who could manage to duplicate Jon's first and most basic trick.

Jonathan was a true genius, I think. The new ones... they are, thankfully, limited. Random and spectacular, but a highly trained veteran can just about
handle their amateur theatrics.

It's a strange new world to live in, and no one knows where it's headed. Well, Jon may, but he's long gone.

And yet, even in his absence, we're all still living in the shadow of Manhattan.

--Sam

"None of you understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me."

[Shepherd]

Very nice. Reminds me of the Aberrant RPG from White Wolf. A 'quantum explosion' gives powers to thousands, but the 'Novas' slowly become more
powerful and less human as time goes on.
----------------------------------------------------

"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV

[Bob Schroeck]

Nice. Obvious extrapolation of the change to the story that I'm sure the scriptwriter never anticipated.

Meanwhile...

Am I obsessed for wondering what the reaction would be if Doug showed up in the Watchmen world in October 1985?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

Am I obsessed for wondering what the reaction would be if Doug showed up in the Watchmen world in October 1985?

As the gateway opened, five hundred miles away Doctor Manhattan froze in the middle of reassembing his latest experiment.

"Jon?" Laurie asked. "Is something the matter?"

"...I think I've gone blind."

--Sam

"How the hell did I do that?"

[Foxboy]

Local Time: October 13, 1985, 6:28 pm

Doug sat reading an issue of "The Black Freighter" when a sudden hush filled the bar. He looked up, towards the door where almost everyone's attention was focused. The figure standing there looked out of place, his trench coat and fedora hopelessly out of date. What riveted Doug, however were two things: the shifting pattern on his full face mask and the controlled menacing walk as he made his way to the bar. Doug noticed the beads of perspiration forming on Harry the bartender's face.

"Ruh," Harry stammered. "Ror. Ror." He swallowed nervously. "Rorschach! H-how ya doin', fella?"

The stranger's body language relaxed minutely and his head raised from his slouch. The dark spots of his mask shifted to something that seemed genial to Doug. "I'm fine, Happy Harry," Rorschach said. "Yourself?" His voice sounded like he gargled razors and had a dead quality that reminded Doug of certain former members of the Warriors. Doug surreptitiously shifted his helmet closer in case things turned ugly.

"Fine!" Harry replied, a little too hastily. He adjusted the collar of his shirt. "I'm fuh, I'm fine! And I'm, and I'm, and I'm glad you're fine, too! And uh, and uh..." A despairing resignation crossed his face. "Oh god," he said weakly. "Please don't kill anybody." At that, Doug began to figure out a playlist for the inevitable fight.

Rorschach turned to scan the bar. "Guy went sidewalk diving Friday night," he said, his rasping voice audible over the frightened stillness. "I don't think he was alone when it happened. Name was Edward Blake." He paused, the pattern on his mask shifting eerily. "Friend of mine."

At this point in canon, a tough makes a comment, "Hey! Ya hear that? He's got friends!" While his drinking buddy is trying to get him to shut up, he continues: "Maybe he changed his deodorant!"

Big mistake.

This causes Rorschach to use him as a torture/intimidation target to see if he can get any answers for the Comedian's death from the Street. This is the infamous "finger breaking" sequence in the first issue/chapter of Watchmen.

I'm just trying to figure when Doug makes his move, and how long he's been in this world, or whether he'd have any idea of the state of mind vis-a-vis "superheroes" in the universe.

Would Doug wait for the first broken finger, or would he have made the deodorant crack? OR would he wait until the interrogation is over and face Rorschach in costume in some dark alley?
EDIT: Adjusted Timestamp to allow for Rorschach's 8:30 visit to Doctor Manhattan.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Shepherd]

Foxboy wrote:

---

Would Doug wait for the first broken finger, or would he have made the deodorant crack? OR would he wait until the interrogation is over and face Rorschach
in costume in some dark alley?

Difficult to say. If Doug does make a move, it will likely be preemptive (before any fingers are broken) and verbal. Rorschach would then likely
either try to turn on Doug or disregard him and continue with the interrogation.

The more interesting option would be for Doug to sit back and wait until Rorschach goes too far. Since Rorschach never did anything more than break some
fingers, Doug may do nothing other than follow him around under the cover of a series of roof jumps and stealth songs. I call this the more interesting option
because this would quickly bring Doug into Dr. Manhattan's presence. I am quite confident that an entity capable of sensing subatomic particles from across
the globe can sense Doug hiding in the same room as him.

If Dr. Manhattan draws attention to Doug, then Rorschach may fixate upon him as the perpetrator of Blake's murder. Also, Doug's magical powers may
convince Dr. Manhattan of the existence of miracles earlier than his Mars discussion with Laurie.
----------------------------------------------------

"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV

[Black Aeronaut]

Doug in the Watchmen World?

I would PAY - HAPPILY - to see that!

[Bob Schroeck]

I admit I am tempted, because in some ways, Doug is a bright version of a Watchmen hero.

And I indeed had imagined that Doug would act like a tiny tachyon generator as far as Dr. Manhattan was concerned -- not so much that Manhattan couldn't see anything around him, but more because he could see too much -- Doug's presence would shatter his future into possibilities, leaving Manhattan open to uncertainty for the first time...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Ebony]

Shepherd wrote:

---

The more interesting option would be for Doug to sit back and wait until Rorschach goes too far. Since Rorschach never did anything more than break some
fingers, Doug may do nothing other than follow him around under the cover of a series of roof jumps and stealth songs. I call this the more interesting
option because this would quickly bring Doug into Dr. Manhattan's presence. I am quite confident that an entity capable of sensing subatomic particles
from across the globe can sense Doug hiding in the same room as him.

I think you're misremembering the scene. Rorshach does, in fact, break only a few fingers on the guy who makes the deodorant comment (which is
justified, since it is stated later that Rorshach doesn't bathe or take particularly good care of himself in his obsessed war on crime), but after that
scene, his narration mentions that he visits a number other places and brutalizes other members of the criminal populace for no other reason but that they
aren't answering his questions. So, the question isn't whether or not Doug interferes on the breaking of a "few fingers" but rather on
whether or not Doug lets a man who is very clearly insane beat the crap out of people who are not committing crimes at the time Rorshach approaches
them.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Bob Schroeck]

I think Doug would in fact interfere in that scenario, which -- assuming Doug isn't wearing his helmet while having his drink and nibbles -- would probably lead to an epic fistfight.

Who would win that fistfight? Hard to say. I always considered everyone in Watchmen other than Dr. Manhattan to be high-end normals, but the movie clearly puts them into very-low-end metahumanity. Based on Doug being able to take out a boomer barehanded, I'd like to say he stands a better chance of winning than Rorschach does, especially given his field and his speed. But Rorschach is bugfuck crazy, and Doug only simulates that. Rorschach may well come up with something that could surprise the hell out of Doug and give him the upper hand.

Then again, ten cops took Rorschach down... Doug without his helmet is more than equal to ten cops, even in riot gear.

And if Doug has his helmet? No contest. And he'd probably pick up the nickname "Manhattan, Jr." in the process simply because he can do weird stuff.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Ebony]

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

I think Doug would in fact interfere in that scenario, which -- assuming Doug isn't wearing his helmet while having his drink and nibbles -- would
probably lead to an epic fistfight.




Who would win that fistfight? Hard to say. I always considered everyone in Watchmen other than Dr. Manhattan to be high-end normals, but the movie
clearly puts them into very-low-end metahumanity. Based on Doug being able to take out a boomer barehanded, I'd like to say he stands a better chance of
winning than Rorschach does, especially given his field and his speed. But Rorschach is bugfuck crazy, and Doug only simulates that. Rorschach may well come
up with something that could surprise the hell out of Doug and give him the upper hand.




Then again, ten cops took Rorschach down... Doug without his helmet is more than equal to ten cops, even in riot gear.




And if Doug has his helmet? No contest. And he'd probably pick up the nickname "Manhattan, Jr." in the process simply because he can do weird
stuff.

I haven't seen the movie, but the shot of Silk Spectre kicking one of the Topknots into a dumpster shows that Snyder has definitely charged up
the heroes. In the book, Moore states, in no uncertain terms, that all members of both the Minutemen and the Crimebusters, except for Manhattan, are normal
human beings.

As for a fight between Rorshach and Doug, I think Doug would win. Doug has military training, and the resources to develop his abilities. Rorschach's
skills are developed out of survival more than anything. He causes the rather impressive bodycount on the SWAT team because they underestimated him. Doug has a
long history of dealing with super-criminals and super-crazies; Rorshach might surprise him with a move or two, but I don't think he could get the upper
hand. 'S just my opinion, though.
Ebony the Black Dragon
http://ebony14.livejournal.com

"Good night, and may the Good Lord take a Viking to you."

[Wiregeek]

hrm

this depends, a lot, IMO, on what Doug _knows_ about the setting. If he staggers into the bar, blasted out of his gourd by portal resonance, just as the
lovely, calming sound of a finger breaking echoes through the air, we're gonna see one thing. Probably a more agressive response, probably less of a
problem dealing with Rorschach - since Doug will not have enough time to check out the local area and verfiy that there is precisely _one_ Metahuman on this
Earth, and he's big, blue, and glowy..

Contrast this with Doug chilling in the bar after a night sweeping floors and stocking groceries at a mom 'n pop (or whatever boring activity), having
verified that a) Dr. Manhattan is the only metahuman on-planet, and b) he's not returning calls. Rorschach is a lower threat level, since he's
'only human'.. oops.

a lovely idea, which could be spun any number of equally valid ways. Someone should crank up a Stagger.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

[Bob Schroeck]

By the way, it seems to me that I've accidentally stolen the topic from Lurker and his very excellent plotbunny. Why don't we move further DW/WM
discussion over to the DW/General conference and let this thread go back to what it's really supposed to be about?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Shepherd]

Ebony wrote:

---

I think you're misremembering the scene. Rorshach does, in fact, break only a few fingers on the guy who makes the deodorant comment (which is justified,
since it is stated later that Rorshach doesn't bathe or take particularly good care of himself in his obsessed war on crime), but after that scene, his
narration mentions that he visits a number other places and brutalizes other members of the criminal populace for no other reason but that they aren't
answering his questions.

Nope, you're the one misremembering things. I had the book open when I made my post. Page 16 of Chapter 1 doesn't end that way. The 8th
panel begins with the caption "First visit of the evening fruitless" while the last panel ends with the caption "I have business elsewhere with
a better class of person." The next page starts with him visiting Veidt. Two pages later he visits Dr. Manhattan. He only visited that one bar looking for
info.

The scene that you refer to is on Page 18 of Chapter 6, where he is talking to the prison psychologist. The third panel has the word bubble "Visited
underworld bars and began hurting people. Put fourteen in hospital needlessly."
----------------------------------------------------

"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV