COH/COV: Worth it?

[Kokuten]

I just got done reading the excellent series "Interviewing Leather" LINK!, and I was thinking about City of Heroes/City of Villians.
A little background - I got in damn near on the ground floor of Everquest, back when the Kunark expansion (the first one!) was just out, fresh and new. I spent five years bringing a guild from odds 'n' sods to a Tier 2 guild, and.. I'm burnt. I made six months in WoW before I realized that it was just the same old same old, in a different pretty hat.
So is City of Heroes any different? Is it the same grind/group/raid/level stuff I've played in EQ/WoW?
Also, is there any sort of free trial, I'd like to test the waters before I decide whether or not to jump in.
What sort of play schedule is required to be an active member/contribute to a group such as the Legendary? How long would a play session normally last?
How involved is combat? Is it 'turn on auto and pray the numbers work', or am I going to be stringing combos, or am I going to be actually doing attacks and targetting?
Hardware isn't a concern - I have a core 2 and a GeForce 8800, I fear no evil.
Any thoughts on CoH/CoV for the casual/burnt out MMORPG player?Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Foxboy]

Point in CoH/Cov's Favor: You've got an in on a functional SG/Global network with people you know from these forums.
The combat system only lets you "automate" one power at a time, unless the power's effects require it to be on otherwise. It also depends on your powersets, etc.
One negative you might find compared to EQ/WoW is that you can't tell what a player can do just by looking at them in a neutral state. Appearances in CoX are not tied to stats/powers. This could also be seen as a positive.

The "shiny" isn't as strong on CoX as on things like Tabula Rasa and/or EQ 2, but it allows folks to get by with limping behind the tech advance curve.
Again, this is a game where you hurt yourself by power leveling. Some of the best experiences are if you get a team together right from the tutorial zone and are able to keep in touch as you advance.
This lets you know what your "toon" is capable of, and how it meshes with others.
As I've said before, you've got a ready network of folks in "The Legendary" channel/SGs. We have branches on Virtue, Infinity, Justice, and Triumph servers. We may also have a twig on Freedom, the most populous server.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[khagler]

I play City of Heroes sporadically--I've had it since a month after it came out, but it's been almost a year since the last time. I definitely like it better than Everquest/WoW, which I don't play any more. I will be back to CoH sooner or later.
There are levels and character classes, but the way powers work makes for much greater flexibility and differentiation among characters than I saw in EQ or WoW. You can have two scrappers (hand to hand combat fighters) of the same level who are totally different in the way they're played.
When I was last playing actively, I had a character (Obsidian Heart) in The Legendary. She participated in several Task Forces, which are a series of related missions performed by a set group. They run fairly long. However, you can contribute to a supergroup even if you never play with any other members just by staying in supergroup mode at all times so that you earn prestige (money for supergroups), and by donating unneeded loot.
How involved combat is depends a lot on your powers. I'd say at a minimum it will be at the "stringing combos" levels--that's how it is for my energy blaster. Obsidian Heart's powers are a bit of everything (straight attacks, attacks that heal her, attacks that terrorize enemies, attacks that hold, etc.), so playing her effectively is much more complicated. I've dabbled with a storm defender, and that was even more intricate. And that's without even getting into the ways different powers interact in a group.
So yes, in my opinion it's worth it. ;-)

[Epsilon]

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So is City of Heroes any different? Is it the same grind/group/raid/level stuff I've played in EQ/WoW?

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Yes. With the caveat that the character generation system and the variety of powers available makes creating alternate characters and playing them through the first ten-fifteen levels is much more common then in most other games. Almost everyone I know who plays CoX has multiple alternate characters on multiple alternate servers.

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Also, is there any sort of free trial, I'd like to test the waters before I decide whether or not to jump in.

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Occasionally people get buddy codes which allow people to activate free accounts for a few weeks or a month or something. You'll have to see if anybody here is generous enough to provide that for you.

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How involved is combat? Is it 'turn on auto and pray the numbers work', or am I going to be stringing combos, or am I going to be actually doing attacks and targetting?

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From what I've seen this is entirely dependant on the archetype and powers you have in play. It is ridiculously easy for a Mastermind to just set his minions in attack mode and sit back reading a paper or something while they clear out a mob. On the other hand a Stalker is going to have to be very careful about chooisng targets and who they fight, or they will quickly find that they are dead.

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Any thoughts on CoH/CoV for the casual/burnt out MMORPG player?

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In my opinion its just more of the same, but then I dislike MMORPGs in general.
------------------
Epsilon

[The Hunterminator]

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I just got done reading the excellent series "Interviewing Leather" LINK!, and I was thinking about City of Heroes/City of Villians.
A little background - I got in damn near on the ground floor of Everquest, back when the Kunark expansion (the first one!) was just out, fresh and new. I spent five years bringing a guild from odds 'n' sods to a Tier 2 guild, and.. I'm burnt. I made six months in WoW before I realized that it was just the same old same old, in a different pretty hat.
So is City of Heroes any different? Is it the same grind/group/raid/level stuff I've played in EQ/WoW?

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Definitely different. The reason Im a big fan of this game is EXACTLY because of that. The main differences are,
-No Zone Grinding: Unless stuck with a Hunt x number of y criminal gang mission, you dont have to hunt specific enemies if you dont want to.
-No Phat Lewt: There are no super powerful drops or anything of the sort and the only person that can see what enhancements (the games equivalent of equipment) you have is you.

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Also, is there any sort of free trial, I'd like to test the waters before I decide whether or not to jump in.

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Im pretty sure theres a referral program that lets someone play for free for 12 days I think.

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What sort of play schedule is required to be an active member/contribute to a group such as the Legendary? How long would a play session normally last?

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The average mission is somewhere between 10 minutes and 1 hour, depending on how easy or hard it is. Task Forces, though, are a lot more involved. Positrons, often cited as the worst and most time consuming, can take 5 hours to complete.
I think theres room for short sessions, and long sessions.

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How involved is combat? Is it 'turn on auto and pray the numbers work', or am I going to be stringing combos, or am I going to be actually doing attacks and targetting?

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There is absolutely no general purpose attack button like in, say, WoW. Combat is usually a string of attacks and situational powers for specific situations.
For example, Yukiyo, my main character, is a Fire/Fire Blaster, a class that specializes in nuking, much like a wizard in most other games. With her, when fighting, I usually use the following strategy.
-Use Build up and Aim (short lived buffs) and use Blazing bolt (long range slow to shoot heavy attack) to severely wound or kill the strongest enemy in the group.
-Loop Fire Ball, fire bolt and flares as long as the enemy stays far away.
-If one or more enemies close in to short range, I add my more powerful close range attacks to the mix.
-If I need a breather, I use Fire Rain which enemies always try to move out of, and then I use flight to retreat to safety.
I also have a few more situational powers that I use less often.
As for targeting, its the fairly standard Click on enemies to select target, tab to switch between on-screen enemies

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Hardware isn't a concern - I have a core 2 and a GeForce 8800, I fear no evil.

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Good, the game can be very pretty if you have the hardware for it.

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Any thoughts on CoH/CoV for the casual/burnt out MMORPG player?

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I think City of Heroes and City of Villains are both refreshingly innovative for someone who has played MMORPGs for any length of time.

[Valles]

Having never played any other MMOs, I can't comment on how CoX compares to them. I will, however, say that there was a time when I would have sworn up and down that I'd never shell out regularly for a game when software should be bought once, dammit... and that CoX has now been my number two timewaster (after fanfic) for over a year, now, and that I've been considering looking into FF XI recently.
Re: other questions...
There is a system whereby an active player can give a friend a free month to try the game out, but I'm not really sure how it works. Somebody else here likely knows.
Different supergroups have different activity policies. The Legendary basically asks that you play in supergroup mode whenever you're on that character up until level 35, and show up more often than twice a year. I've heard of others that require daily prestige contributions.
Play sessions can run anywhere from five minutes for soloing a single mission to five hours or more for some of the task forces.
Different archetypes require different amounts of activity and attention in general, and even within them there will be variations between powersets... which can be further tuned by which powers you pick and how you enhance them. I would be deeply shocked if you couldn't find at least one to suit your taste.
Targeting can be done via either mouse-click or key-triggered cycling, and, while I personally have found that the system is not-so-rarely frustrating, I've never heard anyone else complain. Once you have a target, you can use a combination of number, Alt, and Ctrl keys to trigger a single power (well, sort of, but that's the sense of it and the details of the other things you can do are, 1, arcane, 2, not what you asked about, and 3, easy to ignore if you want to) and cue up another once it's started to activate. The developers are very against any more automation than that, and which powers to use at what time is entirely up to you. Some powers are auto-hit; most roll dice for a basic fifty-fifty chance to hit. Some AOE powers can be aimed with a mouse cursor, but mostly the game doesn't allow any equivalent of a FPS's mouse crosshair.
Ja, -n

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"Reseeestunce ees fiutil. Yoo weeel bee Useemooletud. Borg Borg Borg."
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"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Kokuten]

This is all sounding VERY promising.
next stupid questions are -
Does anyone have a 'friend code' setup available, and..
What server should I setup on? I'll probably join The Legendary for the aforementioned 'premade hoobajooba' benefits.
I'm almost sold, methinks.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[The Hunterminator]

I'm pretty sure anyone with an active account can send you a referal. I can't test it though, my account is currently inactive.
As for joining The Legendary, the main group is in the Virtue server, Hero side, with The Infamous villain side.

[Kokuten]

OH SQUEEE!
CoH on Linux!
That cinches it right there - I have a conversion planned this winter, I can just bring CoH with me.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Acyl]

City of Heroes is essentially a combat game. The whole crafting and trading thing is a new addition and ultimately optional. There's not a lot of non-combat stuff to do. Mostly you get missions, and it basically boils down to 'enter this instanced map and kill everything in sight'.
On the other hand, gameplay's what you make of it. CoH also has an incredible amount of flexibility in build customisation and power selection.
That's all hard numbers, though. There's a lot of other things that make CoH worthwhile to me.
The costume creator, for example. Sure, having a neat looking costume doesn't add a single bit to my character's stats...or change the gameplay in any way. But I like looking cool. And CoH gives you a character creation engine that lets you make damn near anything.
CoH also has a pretty strong roleplay community. Most of us over in the Legendary are roleplayers, or at least RP-friendly. If immersion (or crazy silly banter) is your thing, we roll well with that.
I've tried a few MMOs. I keep coming back to CoH.
-- Acyl

[crimsonsun]

I can set you up with a buddy code, I just need an email addy

[Kokuten]

Well, I bit the bullet and bought it (only 30 bux, is inside 'trivial' budget at the moment).

There's no D-pass. turns out, that's where the serial number is.
So I has a coaster!

*grumble*
sealed retail box from best buy, too. arrgh!
Edit: Buggrit, hit Best Buy and did a swap. got about a half hour of email and stuff to catch up on before I hit it.
here I come!
Edit the second: EIGHTEEN HOURS worth of updates. Bleargh!Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[Morganite]

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I've been considering looking into FF XI recently.

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*Morgan's ears perk up, and she starts going really off topic*
FFXI's actually my online game of choice most of the time, though I haven't been on much in the past few months for various reasons.
It's really an entirely different experience from CoH. (I'd almost consider it the total opposite of CoH - part of why playing the other game always helped when I was getting burned out on one.) Groups are just shy of mandatory for levelling, and even levelling at a slow pace solo requires really knowing your stuff. There's a lot of really interesting story in there, but doing a lot of it requires a group of people with a fair amount of long term dedication to pull off. (I'd try to convince you if you decided to start playing to do so on the server I'm on, but *I'm* considering a server transfer because the linkshell I was in has sort of imploded. '.' )
Anyway, if you're wondering about anything about the game, I can probably give you some sort of idea about it. I know the stuff I read beforehand didn't really prepare me for a lot of things, even if most of it did turn out to be as cool as I was expecting.
-Morgan."Mikuru-chan molested me! I'm... so happy!"
-Haruhi, "The Ecchi of Haruhi Suzumiya"
---(Not really)

[Acyl]

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Edit the second: EIGHTEEN HOURS worth of updates. Bleargh!

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Well, put it this way - at least you know that the folks at Cryptic and NCsoft weren't kidding when they promised lots of free expansions. =)
Which box set did you buy, though? That seems like a hella lot of downloads. I mean, I get that when I reinstall, since my game discs are way back from initial release...but I'd have figured that newer retail boxes would be more up to date.
Also, did you get just City of Heroes, or City of Villains as well? I heavily recommend both, if only for functionality purposes. o_o
-- Acyl

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm coming in on this way too late to affect Kokuten's decision -- I was too late when I browsed through the boards last night right before going to bed -- but I just want to say, I'm glad to see you taking the plunge, K! We'll have a place open for you in the Legendary if you want in.

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Also, did you get just City of Heroes, or City of Villains as well? I heavily recommend both, if only for functionality purposes. o_o

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Very good point. It doesn't cost you any more, on a monthly basis, to have both games, and having both subscribed opens up a lot of things, including -- most importantly for us -- being able to access the supergroup base. I'd also suggest that if you didn't buy the "Good vs. Evil" set, you head over to the City of Heroes website and get the GvE "extras" package -- costs about $10, and gives you a bunch of useful things for your characters that you will eventually find indispensible.-- Bob
---------
One of the primary differences between the Left and the Right is their attitude toward the Future. The Radical wants the Future to have gotten here yesterday. The Reactionary wants the Future quietly shot and the corpse buried where no one can find it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Kokuten]

good vs evil set - it's cheaper than either as a single, it's more available, and I get some stuff.
My first box didn't have a freaking d-pass in it, I had to drive back to best buy and trade it in!
Edit: 5:34 am, 120/294mb downloaded, ~4k/sec.
poopy.Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[The Hunterminator]

Yeah, most MMORPGs have that problem when you first install them. As for the download speed, yeah, that's a problem CoX has sometimes, it tends to fluctuate weirdly.
And good choice on getting the Good vs Evil set. The two sides are a lot of fun, super group bases are very useful (and The Legendary base is really neat) and the items are pretty useful, the jump pack, in particular, makes travel less of an hassle when you're under lvl 14.

[Bob Schroeck]

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the jump pack, in particular, makes travel less of an hassle when you're under lvl 14.

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It is, in fact, indispensible when you get your first missions in Atlas Park's warehouse district. Which is often your second or third mish. Every bad guy down there shows up as purple, and you can't run a dozen yards before having to worry about getting nailed by one. The jump pack makes it much easier to get to that remote mission door without a half dozen L6 Hellions pancaking your spandex-clad ass the moment you spot a warehouse.-- Bob
---------
One of the primary differences between the Left and the Right is their attitude toward the Future. The Radical wants the Future to have gotten here yesterday. The Reactionary wants the Future quietly shot and the corpse buried where no one can find it.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[jpub]

One thing I can tell you: Don't get too attached to a character, either as a 'main' or as a concept. In fact, develop a bunch of them at once - eventually you'll find one that calls to you and you'll play that one a *lot*.
--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"

[ECSNorway]

One hint about navigating certain districts: Generally, the aggro range for most mobs is about half a street's width.
Which means, if you stay to the center of the streets, you're safest while traveling in high-mob-level districts, since they usually hang around on the sidewalks, where you'll be just out of aggro range....--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Kokuten]

you guys rock so hard, thank you for the advice and information and STUFF!
I'm gonna be firing up under Virtue tonight, I hope.
My global is gonna be @wiregeek, I can tell you right now that I have no idea what toons I'm going to be making (but I'm not gonna bother apping to Legendary until I settle on one).
wheee!Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[The Hunterminator]

Well, toons, of course, depend on what play style you like. Hero side, they are:
-Scrapper: Easiest to jump in. Pretty good 1 on 1 damage with some melee range AoE attacks and fairly good defensive skills. The usual Scrapper strategy is to jump in the thickest part of the fight and hit people until there are none left.
-Tanker: Like the name says, the tanker specialises in being ridiculously tough and has some pretty good taunt power. A tanker fights melee, but does a lot less damage than a scrapper.
-Blaster: One of my favourite archetypes, the blaster is all about raw offensive power. The downside is that the blaster has very few defensive powers so the usual blaster strategy is to kill before you get killed.
-Controller: My other favourite archetype, the controller specialises in status effects. Pretty much all offensive controller powers also immobilise, hold, cause sleep, confuse or knock around the enemies. The big downside of controllers, aside from being squishies like the blaster, is that bosses tend to be resistant to their powers, so you have to stack effects.
-Defender: Unlike what a surprisingly large ammount of people think, Defenders don't mean Healers. In fact, only one powerset specialises in that. Defenders specialise in buffs and debuffs and this is one of the archetypes with the most variation between powersets. This is the powerset I've played least so I can't give much more information.

[Kokuten]

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-Scrapper:

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EQ Equivalent - Monk, Ranger.

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-Tanker:

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EQ Equivalent - Warrior

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-Blaster:

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EQ Equivalent - Wizard

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-Controller:

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EQ Equivalent - Mage, Enchanter, Druid

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-Defender:

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Interesting. No _real_ EQ Equivalent, though they sound more like an Enchanter than anything else. Most classes in EQ have other-buffs..

Looking forward to tonight,
-WGWire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[The Hunterminator]

Yeah, Defenders do a fairly good job of puzzling most newcomers to City of Heroes, but they can be VERY useful. The radiation powerset, for example, has several debuffs that, as long as you have the endurance to keep it up, effect a single mob (often refered to as the anchor) and every single mob that gets infected by getting too close to it. Well used, those debuffs can turn an impossible battle into a slightly challenging one.
Oh, and you mentioned that Interviewing Leather got you interested in the game. Well I'm pretty sure that Darkhood would be a Trick Arrow/Archery defender with bits of the fighting and fitness power pools.

[Kokuten]

Whereas Leather looks like a melee/fitness scrapper.. Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979