D&D Fourth Edition Announced

[Epsilon]

In case you live under a log:
Wizards of the Coast announces D&D 4th Edition for May 2008.
I'll probably buy it, but I'm a whore for gaming material.
--------------
Epsilon

[Jinx999]

I'd heard. I got third edition when it first came out - and they've changed it twice since then. I guess WotC wants my money more than it wants my custom.

[Ayiekie]

Umm, D&D3e was brought out eight years ago. It was revised to 3.5, the only major revision they made, five years ago. I have little interest in the game myself, but what exactly are they supposed to be making money on if they don't put out a new edition? It's great if you buy miniatures, I guess...

[Jinx999]

1) There were some intermediate changes like nerfing the Shield spell.
2) I was expecting interesting world books and settings - not endless arrays of splatbooks that constaly made each other obsolete - and enough goddamn Prestige classes to choke the Tarrasque with no explanation of how they were supposed to fit into a halfway coherent world.

[Ayiekie]

Halfways coherent world? In D&D? No offence, but I think you were looking at the wrong game. ;p

[robkelk]

Hmmmmm...

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But we have learned a lot about whats worked and not worked over the last eight years, and were certainly looking to get rid of the slow and bumpy parts and just get to the fun

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That's a good start - maybe they've actually done some playtesting of the new rules.
But...

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In essence, what youre going to see mechanically is the d20 system evolved: rebuilding the clunky parts, greasing the wheels and polishing the chrome until you can see your character in it. Part of that polishing includes ramping up the coolness factor on some of the less-popular character classes to make sure that every class has a unique and essential role in a well-balanced party;

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...this doesn't fill me with confidence. While "shiny" is important, "well-tested" is more important, and this doesn't give me the impression that they've actually testes the "shiny".
And I suspect I know exactly how to read that "unique and essential role in a well-balanced party" bit: somebody's going to get stuck playing the cleric again, instead of the character type he actually wanted to play.

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Not all of Fourth Editions changes will add to the game by subtraction; many rules tweaks theyve experimented with in books all over Wizards RPGs will show up as well. For example, Slavicsek tells us that The Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords book, which gave fighter-type characters the same types of options spellcasters do by basically giving them spells for fighters, was received very well. That idea has been extremely popular, and were adopting something similar for Fourth Edition.

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"Something similiar" - does that mean they playtested the rule and revised it in line with the feedback they got, or did they just add more "shiny" and possibly break the rule? I hope the former is the case, but I'd like to know for sure.

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As always, the Players Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Masters Guide will be the core of the new edition, and youll see them in May, June and July of 2008 respectively,

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Oh, wonderful - two months between the players' book and the GM's book. I know this is how AD&D was released; you'd think they'd have learned by now why that's a bad idea.

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So Fourth Edition will be a new rule set based on d20, but not remotely compatible.

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Oh, joy - how many supplements need to be re-purchased this time? (At least GURPS Fourth Edition includes rules for using GURPS Third Edition books, and BESM Third Edition doesn't completely invalidate BESM Second Edition.)

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Today, millions of people go online to pretend theyre elves and orcs and goblins on epic quests in various MMOs, sometimes even in the D&D universe with D&D Online. But we cant help but feel that all those MMOs have just been honing in on D&Ds territory. After all, how many World of Warcraft and EverQuest players started because their D&D group broke up?

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Yeah, guys, that recent movie trilogy by Peter Jackson had nothing to do with mainstream popularity of fantasy - it's all because of your niche-market product... This may or may not be a digression. If this is an accurate reflection of how they think, then they're out of touch with the real world; if it isn't, then I apologize. But I suspect it is accurate, because of this bit:

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Itll start with your electronic version of Dungeon magazine and Dragon magazine, which Slavicsek is particularly familiar with because he used to be the editor of Dragon.

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Hasn't anybody told him that those two magazines have been cancelled?
I should know by now not to read too much into a press release, which this quite obviously is. But this particular press release doesn't fill me with hope...

-Rob Kelk
"Read Or Die: not so much a title as a way of life." - Justin Palmer, 6 June 2007
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[LilFluff]

I'm going to reserve judgement on D&D 4E until there is something to actually look at. For the simple reason that I can see it going either very well or very bad.

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Hasn't anybody told him that those two magazines have been cancelled?

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Well there is suspicion that WotC took back the license in order to take over production of the magazines again. My suspicion is that they'll redo them as a web publication.
If it is handled like Pyramid where paying for a subscription gives you access to the full archives then I might be interested. Especially if that archive goes back into the old TSR era issues.
Of course the amount asked for would be a major factor too.
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Will the transhumanist future have catgirls? Does Japan still exist? Well, there is your answer.

[ECSNorway]

If they can make Cleric more than "Ooh, look! Buffs and debuffs!", it'll be playable...--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[classicdrogn]

If I could have a Fighter and give up the bonus Feats for ability to cast healing magic, that would essentially align with how my console RPG characters tend to end up. Then again, I find D&D an excercise in frustration for the most part anyway, the positive of hanging out with people into many of the same things and telling a co-op story against the negative of working within a framework where Media Protagonist X would have to have about twice as many levels as their age to do what they're shown doing, when they're the inspiration for the character being played.
- CDSERVO: Loook *deeeeply* into my eyes... Tell me, what do you see?
CROW: (hypnotized) A twisted man who wants to inflict his pain upon others.
For the next 72 hours, Itachi intoned, I will slap you with this trout. - Spying no Jutsu, chapter 3
"In the futuristic taco bell of the year 20XX, justice wears an aluminum sombrero!"hemlock-martini
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Morganite]

On clerics... I seem to remember one discussion of D&D saying that there was no reason to play anything *but* a cleric... Can't remember where though. It sounded like they thought clerics were the ones that were too powerful though...
And of course, you can't have *everything* be essential... no one has parties that big. '.'
I don't know if I really care about this or not... Even before 3E came out it'd been a while since I had a chance to play with a good group of people. I still tend to pick up rpg books because some of them are interesting reads, but without an actual game to play in D&D tends to be a bit lacking.
-Morgan."Mikuru-chan molested me! I'm... so happy!"
-Haruhi, "The Ecchi of Haruhi Suzumiya"
---(Not really)

[robkelk]

Gotta wonder whether this has any truth to it...

-Rob Kelk
"Read Or Die: not so much a title as a way of life." - Justin Palmer, 6 June 2007
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[ECSNorway]

The way I heard it, they're integrating the current Epic rules directly into the core rules for play above level 20.--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.