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Mass Effect 3 and Origin
02-14-2012, 04:30 AM
I recently remembered that the Mass Effect 3 Demo was going to be released last month, so I did a bit of looking around. I am now faced with a bit of a dilemma. It should appear that EA is continuing it's trend, and making Mass Effect 3 require Origin to be installed and active in order to play. This has sparked no end to flame wars on the topic, with two hundred-some page threads on the Bioware forums accumulate and get locked. Since I have hope that this will not turn out to be quite as vitrolic a issue here, I'm interested in soliciting some opinions on Origin, hopefully from some people I know that use it. Most notably is the issue that Origin can and will scan your hard drive. EA insists just the Origin AppData directory ("reviewing filenames"), tinfoil-hats say the entire drive (everything from tracking your gameplay to spying on your messages to gay chatrooms).
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
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Until ME3 is released and installed by someone, all we have is supposition. That said, I plan on playing ME3 even though I refuse to support Origin with my monies*, and so I will volunteer to hook Origin's nasty process with my handy-dandy process monitor and tell you what I find.
In the meantime, someone has already done that over on Reddit about a year ago, and the RockPaperShotgun forums were kind enough to capture the gist of the argument in this thread here:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/ ... r-computer
It has been a year, after all, and I'm as paranoid as the next when it comes to EA, but I watched like a hawk when SW:TOR was installed (which doesn't require the Origin client but *does* require an Origin account, suggesting that they are in fact linked) and I so far haven't spotted any misbehavior. There's a brain-dead stupid move in the launcher that requires admin rights, but that's lazy programming and Ye Olde Process Monitor confirms that it does behave exactly as advertised in that when it closes and launches TOR, it really does close and launch TOR. I also haven't noticed any suspicious port activity, but all that tells me is that if they ARE sending my secrets out over the wire it's buried in the game data itself. I rather doubt they are; they *need* SW:TOR to succeed, and that would *not* help.
So I'm willing to extend the slight benefit of the doubt and take the cautious position at this time that EA is *trying* to play this one straight -- it'd have to be dumber than we know it already to be to not know how much it has pissed off the fanbase lately -- and is just not very bright. Or rather, is very bad at communicating to its legal team that making vague, sweeping, threatening statements in the EULA is a Bad Thing when addressing tech-savvy privacy-preferring individuals who generally know what the hell they're talking about, unlike said legal team.
TLDR version: I'll let you know what I find when I get the demo and/or retail client, but I'm willing to take a risk on it as-is -- and typically I'm one of the ones arguing against such things.
(* I'm hoping that there's going to be a third-party setup like there was for SW:TOR and you don't *have* to have Origin active to play. As in, I'll go buy a boxed copy from somewhere retail rather than order it digitally. If it still requires an Origin client install, I'll be very disappointed. I'm sure EA will recognize my complaint and recant their policy. /sarcasm)
--sofaspud
-- "Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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.... I think I'd rather buy a console system and play it there. Because, as I'd only use the machine for gaming (instead of a replacement computer/home entertainment system like they try to be), all they'd know about anyhow is my favorite game of the month.
Plain-Jane Xbox units aren't that expensive these days, are they?
blackaeronaut Wrote:Plain-Jane Xbox units aren't that expensive these days, are they? Last time I checked, no. but if you want the Kinetic thing (stupid gimmick) YES! 
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From what I see on their forums ( linky), forcing origin down your throat in all new EA games is a hill they will die on. Time will tell if they actually will, but it sure as hell is catching them a lot of flaming. I find their "Origin is totally not Spyware. Really." ( obligatory joke picture) reassurance to be a rather informative statement on the validity of the complaints that have been made against it.
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
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Even if it isn't spyware then they run the same risk Sony took with their rootkits... and look how well that ended!
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My ME Saves are on PC. I'll just have to put Origin on my computer and like it. And since the demo is inbound, I already have 
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Well, my saves are in many places....though I do wonder just how the copy of ME3 (US premium) I've ordered's going to play with Origin, but as my copy of Battlefield 3 was sourced the same way I doubt there would be too much trouble. It's the Steam thing that may get me, for that's where both ME & ME2 are residing on my system but I don't think I bought them via Steam 'cos I've got the install disks somewhere in my pile of stuff.
Decisions, decisions, unlock some more achievements, go through the Omega 4 Relay or try to get some really out there hats........
--Rod.H
"Spy, spy....spy!"
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This might cause some interesting improvisational juggling on my hard drives. Because my copy of ME1 was a store-bought disc. Where ME2 was downloaded through Steam. I can't wait to see what I'm going to have to do to get ME3 working properly...
(Edit: Oh btw, Rod. I play TF2 as well. Mostly Engineer, Pyro and medic recently. Yes - Medic. Apparently if you're a savvy medic, you get VERY popular on some servers. I've had about 10 invites to various groups. Seeing as how I'm either an Engie, a Medic, or a Pyro, I have taken the appropriate Steam Handle "Dr. Fronkensteen". )
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I've got the ME3 demo on my 360 and......UGH, Not a escort mission! Nope, it is its close annoying relative: open a door to let a weak important semi-stationary object move. It's the level where most of the Cerberus troops screenshots were done. Still, am annoyed at the usual run of it's a new game so all your cool toys are gone and we've reset all your leveled up skills & gimmicks. Then theres a biggie what happened to the built-in medigel systems or the simple health regen from ME.
Oh and the cover system sort of works, when your not barrel rolling into a wall!
--Rod.H
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There's a relatively decent explanation for why you're back to level 1 each time. In ME2 you died. In ME3, it appears Shepard's been off Active Duty, probably about a year. Argue characterization all you want, they have a point. The Medigel thing is pretty much the same as it is in ME2, that hasn't changed this time. It's an in-combat rez for your squad, rather than a Heal-Me it used to be in ME1. Different story. The cover "improvements" look like they may be useful, but it's going to take some getting used to. It's got a lot more than 'enter/exit cover' now that you need to be aware of. It's probably a lot worse to handle on a god-forsaken controller.
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
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From all reports I've seen, when the main game releases, you'll be able to import your character and keep the skill level from ME2. That one went to 30, this one goes to 60, and the higher skill levels that let you choose from two or three different options can be changed later. All weapons earned in ME2, including DLC packs, will also transfer over at the beginning.
I have to admit, I laughed at Anderson just shutting Shepard down when she started to grump about being grounded and relieved of duty. Not even counting Arrival, what'd you expect Shep? And then the sky fell. Seriously, I was expecting a curb-stomp battle, but the sheer speed of the Reapers taking Earth was pretty shocking. By the time you get a gun and start climbing over rooftops, Earth is lost. There's Reapers walking around, looking better then ever, Husks in the buildings (And the sky O_O ), and the end of the intro level... That was a very nicely done player punch, dammit Bioware. The second mission... Eh, it made for some interesting stuff regarding Wrex, Mordin and showing off the levelling system and more detailed combat, but it's further along in the game, and there's too much in between for my liking.
I've been playing multiplayer pretty heavily since it opened up on Friday, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Easy to level, the system for earning new equipment between missions works for me, and it's pretty good practice at getting the hang of cover system improvements. But then, I'm a sucker for any combat system that isn't PvP.
... Still prefer ME1s weapons heat system, I'll admit...
CattyNebulart
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I'll just say this, the only way origin would find itself on my PC is in a quarantined virtual machine.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
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Is it that bad?
Whether it is or not, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to take the risk. I normally wouldn't. But this is Mass Effect and I don't have a spare machine to do this with.
There must be a way to make sure it does absolutely no more than the absolute minimum poking around on my drive necessary.
CattyNebulart
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Logan Darklighter Wrote:Is it that bad?
Whether it is or not, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to take the risk. I normally wouldn't. But this is Mass Effect and I don't have a spare machine to do this with.
There must be a way to make sure it does absolutely no more than the absolute minimum poking around on my drive necessary.
Hence the virtual machine, that should keep it from poking around outside of it's assinged space (barring flaws in the virtual machine or bad setup.). Do some reading on what DRM has done to machines in the past, while there are memorable things such as sony's rootkit they are just the very tip of the iceberg. There are even indications that some of the DRM schemes have even led to hardware failure due to messing with drivers. If I must install a game with such DRM it will go into it's own virtual machine because I can't trust it not to break stuff.
Then again since I run Linux I need to use wine and a crack or a virtual machine anyway, so it doesn't make much of a difference to me.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
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I'm sure there are plenty of horror stories as far as DRM goes. As it stands though, trying to run Origin into a VM is probably going to cause more trouble than it's worth. For reasonable control, you don't start it up automatically, and you can probably run it in offline mode most of the time if you're really worried. When it comes down to it, though, if you want to play the game, you need the software. I haven't noticed anything suspect about it so far (not that I'd really know what to look for). Being careful is good, but going to extraordinary lengths will likely cause you more problems getting it to work than the fun you'll get out of playing it.
Enough people here are willing to give it a try (myself included) that it's not too much of a worry.
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
HoagieOfDoom
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I've been using Origin since the Battlefield 3 alpha. The only issue I've had is that the BF3 alpha and beta entries don't disappear from the games list for some reason. Other than that, no real complaints, though I still primarily use Steam when I can. And I've heard conflicting reports about what data Origin scrapes, so I haven't a clue there.
Anyone who plays BF3 or ME3 when it comes out, add me as a friend. My user name is the same as my forum name here.
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Supposedly Origin currently only scans its own Folder. The problem with platforms like origin is that it's really only one update from doing something nastier. As much as I don't like the idea, I may get ME3 for my console instead of my PC.
Mind you, the paranoia is mostly fueled by EA's terrible reputation for DRM. Since, basically, Origin is more or less the same type of thing as Steam (which is also only one update from doing terrible things to your computer - the only difference being that Valve is a lot more trustworthy in the minds of gamers)
HoagieOfDoom
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else to consider: apparently BioWare/EA have cut a possibly major piece of content from ME3 and are selling it off separately as paid DLC and part of the collector's edition. I'm going to need to do a little digging since I just heard about this.
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EA is really pushing the envelope on this. They know they have a hot item, and they're trying to make the most of it. This is either a fantastic understanding of market forces, or ruthless and unethical profiteering. Let the (latest) flame war begin.
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
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I have enough gaming to entertain me for quite some time. And given that ME2 was fun, but not quite as fun as ME1, I think I'll wait for the game of the year/everything version to go on sale on steam.
-Terry
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TF2: Spy
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It's unlikely that ME3 will be on steam. EA is having a dickfight with Valve. EA wants Origin exclusive DLC, which Steam's Seller license prohibits.
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
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fortunately, I don't have to worry about it. Come this September, I'm going to be on Pandora, shooting _everything_.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...&feature=player_embedded
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From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies
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HoagieOfDoom Wrote:Something else to consider: apparently BioWare/EA have cut a possibly major piece of content from ME3 and are selling it off separately as paid DLC and part of the collector's edition. I'm going to need to do a little digging since I just heard about this.
Yeah, the CE extra squadmember has been advertised as part of the Collectors Edition for about six months now. Apparently it's been revealed, by yet another Xbox Live store leak, that people will be able to buy it separately as DLC on launch day. So, naturally, everyone is screaming bloody murder. Because an extra character and a mission or two (Going by the ME2 approach) is the end of the world.
The attitude people take to DLC amuses me. You'd think EA had set puppies on fire or something.
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Right, so, I finally got around to investigating the Origin client (as opposed to the client-lite that ships with SW:TOR). I have a full dump of the Origin startup sequence captured if anyone wants the nitty-gritty details, but here's the TL;DR version: Origin is playing it straight, near as I can tell.
Oddities:
* It accesses my Avast! installation, briefly and near as I can tell benignly. I suspect it's registering itself somehow with Avast so as not to trigger false-positives, but who knows.
* Apparently, Origin uses Amazon's cloud for... something. There are multiple calls to amazonaws in here.
Suspicions Confirmed:
* SW:TOR's launcher is basically Origin-lite. The Origin client scans the SW:TOR folder during startup, only looking at the launcher.exe file. I'm pretty sure this is related to it offering to 'install' SW:TOR for me every time I start it up.
What The F-in F, Guys?:
* It traverses the file tree unnecessarily *for its target folders only*; this is to say, it's looking for (for example) the Origin folder in the Appdata tree (totally legit); it starts out at C:Users\ and apparently tries to create the folder first, when that fails it then traverses down and ... starts the process over again. Either I'm reading this wrong or EA designed this thing to rebuild its directories every time it starts on the off-chance that one of them got nuked somehow. Which is... legit? It's just a brute-force and inelegant solution to the problem. :/
Verdicts:
* It doesn't touch Steam.
* It doesn't touch things it shouldn't (every file and resource accessed are Origin-specific, or, EA products, excepting Avast).
* It doesn't report anything back to EA that it shouldn't, as far as I can tell.
* It doesn't (as far as I can tell) use rootkit techniques. Caveat: you have to install it as admin originally, and I suspect it sets file permissions for its folders at that time so as not to need it thereafter, as I'm not being prompted for admin rights when I fire it up (as opposed to SW:TOR, c'mon, guys, get with the program).
* Holy crap, the startup sequence alone generates an 8MB CSV dump file.
So, that's the down-low, folks. EA's got a deservedly bad rep for its EULA, and should be slapped hard for *that*, but aside from what looks like lazy programming techniques, I'm not seeing anything in the Origin client that isn't legit.
EDIT: since I know someone will bring it up if I don't -- yes, it also accesses Windows system files, but that's totally legit as well. It's hitting required DLLs and such. I forgot to mention that above, my bad.
--sofaspud
-- "Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
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