Shadowrun Returns

[Bob Schroeck]

So...  who else backed the Kickstart for this and got their copies four days ago?  I installed mine pretty much immediately, and let me tell you it's gorgeous.  They could have used a copyeditor on some of the text, and I've definitely spotted a bug (or a systematic error of some other sort) in the screen for hiring runners for a team (I saw entirely too many heavily-cybered characters with 6 essence), but overall the look is amazing, the music is great, and the story material I've gotten through so far has been top-notch.
Speaking of which, I wasted almost my entire weekend on the initial story arc.  I'm still not done with it, because I keep accomplishing the main goal but dying anyway in the final segment.  Has anyone else gotten all the way to the end, and if so, do you have any advice for living through the last bit?  Thanks.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[CrimsonKMR]

Only poked around a bit and killed Steve Jackson... thats about it, but yea its a very nice looking game for what it is (don't expect full 3d and all that XD)
There is no coincidence, only necessity....
- Clow Reed

[s3yang]

I've completed the main storyline already. And yeah, the last segment was a bit more difficult.

In anycase, any suggestions I have will be tempered by what type of character you're playing. (the last segment _really_ punishes you if you're playing as a decker for example).

But in general, my advice is to

1: Make absolutely sure you're taking the Tir Tangire ghost as one of the runners with you.
2: make sure you use the story character to heal as much as possible _immediately_ after a large hit. The mage heal will only heal the last wound, so if you receive a 1 hp hit after a 20 hp hit, you're losing a lot of potential recovery.
3: medkits. Lots of medkits.
4: completely unload on the shaman and ignore the adds. If possible, if you have a shaman or a rigger, use their drones/spirits as distractions.
5. You can use LOS to your advantage.

6. make sure you're using the story character's movement boost on himself. and buffing when possible.
And here's a relatively big one(with spoilers).
Once you kill one of the things and people have AP left, set people with the special weapon on overwatch pointing at the corpse. Be sure that when there's a break in the fighting to reload the weapons as well.

[Bob Schroeck]

Damn. Is there any way I can backstep to the tycoon's mansion and reselect my team? And why isn't there a souce of medkits along with all other equipment there?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[s3yang]

Yeah, you can backstep by choosing the 'rewind' option when loading a game. So you can at least re-pick your team.As for medkits. Sadly, I think there was an oversight and they didn't include the medkits.
Anyways, the reason why I suggest the ghost if you didn't take him before is that he has another one of the special weapons - which is pretty much necessary.
(What type of character did you build btw?)

[Mark Skarr]

I had actually missed the kickstarter (by a freaking day!), but bought it on Steam as soon as it became available.

Yeah, that last mission is a royal pain. It was nigh unbeatable with my mage, but my rigger had an easier time at it (the drone being alternate shot selection helped tremendously).

We had run out of medkits and were trundling along. The lack of a loot-system or an on-the-fly save system (even a single-slot, roguelike save) sorely hampers this game. It's real, saving grace, is the quality of the writing.

What gets me is the utter randomness of accuracy. I don't know how many times I'd miss--in a row--when having a 99% chance to hit something. It's worse than X-Com accuracy. I wouldn't even consider it a guideline--the accuracy delcaration is pretty useless.

s3yang's advice is very sound. The only thing I'd add to it is: The longer the fight takes, the more things you'll have shooting at you. His point #4, I would make point #1.

The game is short! I got through two play-throughs in just over 12 hours. There wasn't much in the way of side missions--just sprint right along their story.

[Bob Schroeck]

s3yang wrote:Anyways, the reason why I suggest the ghost if you didn't take him before is that he has another one of the special weapons - which is pretty much necessary.

Oh!  So he's the tycoon's guy.  I couldn't figure out which one it was supposed to be, and I thought his price was suspiciously low. 
Heh.  Blame me for too much roleplaying -- in my ignorance I smelled a rat.

s3yang wrote:(What type of character did you build btw?)

I tried to recreate my favorite character from our old tabletop days -- Mossad, my Jewish street samurai and part-time magical researcher.  (He couldn't cast spells, but he had a magical library and could design them -- and then he traded them to a local mage who sucked at spell design, in exchange for having some of them cast on him -- like +4 cybered attribute boosts.)
Mossad is, btw, the reason I got angry at the 1990s-vintage Seattle City Book -- because it has no bagel places in it at all.  You can get a vindaloo, sushi, whatever the hell elves and orcs eat -- but you can't get a bagel and lox or a good half-sour pickle.  What kind of fershlugginer city is Seattle in 2032 anyway?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

s3yang's advice is very sound. The only thing I'd add to it is: The longer the fight takes, the more things you'll have shooting at you. His point #4, I would make point #1.

You know, I'd been unloading on the shaman from the first -- I was just convincing myself I had to split the party and have half deal with the adds while the other half harassed the shaman, until we ran out of adds.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Bob Schroeck]

Mark Skarr wrote:

---

The game is short! I got through two play-throughs in just over 12 hours. There wasn't much in the way of side missions--just sprint right along their story.

Ooh, that reminds me, I also accepted the other mission that was available for the night I broke into the corp, thinking I could do both... I wonder if my failure to accomplish that task is going to impact me somehow...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Matrix Dragon]

Doc Castle in the safehouse sells medkits Bob. Also Doc Trauma surplus.

[Mark Skarr]

Yeah I took that one side mission, too. Not much more than a few extra nuyen and, maybe, a half-dozen karma points. I was hoping that, before the final leg of the game, we'd have the opportunity to run a few missions to make some nuyen and getting more karma. Nope; I was wrong.

I don't think Bob's issue is that he couldn't buy them durring the game, just that the last mission has no opportunity to restock before sending you into the meatgrinder. After you came out of the previous meatgrinder.

And I think they did the Shadowrun community a horrible disservice by having that story character join you. My stats weren't quite as good as his (though my Intelligence and Quickness were actually higher!), but, my drone did a number on him thanks to the crappy targeting/masking/where-the-hell-is-my-target's-hot-spot bugs.

When he said he was joining us, I was actually afraid that we'd need him. Not that I'd be popping Doc Wagon conumables on him every few turns.

[s3yang]

Mark Skarr wrote:

---

And I think they did the Shadowrun community a horrible disservice by having that story character join you. My stats weren't quite as good as his (though my Intelligence and Quickness were actually higher!), but, my drone did a number on him thanks to the crappy targeting/masking/where-the-hell-is-my-target's-hot-spot bugs.

That story character is trolling you. Hardcore. What he's doing is a tiny little percentage of what he's capable of. A very itty bitty percentage.
To put it into perspective. I believe the modules that have him as a character in them never bother to give him stats.
@bob: You're not missing anything with the other run. (if you watched the alpha gameplay vid, you're not missing anything at all). I'd just save it for your next playthrough.

[Mark Skarr]

Yeah, I think they even commented that they didn't give him (or his foil) any stats because that would tempt PCs to try to kill them. And the game was better because they didn't have stats.

'Cuz, let's be honest, if he was done right, he wouldn't need us for the final run in the CRPG. Him coming along was because one of the devs probably said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if . . ." and the producer didn't beat them into a corner with a stick until they agreed what a horrible idea it was.

(Or worse, it could have been the producer that said it . . . )

[s3yang]

Mark Skarr wrote:

---

Yeah, I think they even commented that they didn't give him (or his foil) any stats because that would tempt PCs to try to kill them. And the game was better because they didn't have stats.

'Cuz, let's be honest, if he was done right, he wouldn't need us for the final run in the CRPG. Him coming along was because one of the devs probably said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if . . ." and the producer didn't beat them into a corner with a stick until they agreed what a horrible idea it was.

(Or worse, it could have been the producer that said it . . . )

I think in this case, I'm actually going to attribute it to shadowrun. I think he's _testing_ you. If you 'get him killed' he just sort of gets back up when no one's looking. And if you die, he finishes the job, comes out, and tells everyone how stupid you were.

[Mark Skarr]

I don't know if I'd agree with that. He likes runners and I don't think he'd do that. After all, you can't play if you're dead. And he can't enjoy your antics if you're dead.

His foil: absolutley. He'd have gone along, let you die, then solved the problem himself.

And, to be honest, I don't know that they put that much thought into it. He really felt forced in. Actually, the whole end bit seemed forced. After all, why send a Runner in (or pair of runners, because He's coming and if you don't take one of the soldiers you're making a huge mistake.)? You send several runner groups in, from various directions, to be the distraction for the actual team who go slove the problem.

But, then you don't get to be the hero. But really, with him on the team . . . you wouldn't be.

[Mark Skarr]

That’s one of the main problems with the game.  You’re actually rewarded for being a good, kind person.  You’re “punished” for acting like a Runner.  Runners want to get paid.  My mage, who was acting like a runner, only got about 70% the Karma my Rigger did, who was being the “morally-upright, paragon of society” no runner would be.  The mage only wound up with like 10% more money.  It wasn’t worth acting like a Runner.  So, the RP aspect of the game is off.

I think that’s why my Rigger did so well: he was max Intelligence and Quickness and his Rig Combat was really high as well, so him losing that 1 AP to get the brutally high-damage drone with 2 AP was worth it.  Did I mention he had enough Karma to be a useful decker as well?

But, to me, the game felt like they wanted you to feel like a runner, and then, you get to play with the big dogs, so you can be part of the final battle.  I think that Fallout 3 did a much better job with that:

Spoiler

Liberty Prime’s march on the Jefferson Memorial.  They told you that he needed support, but, if you just follow him around, he’s weaponized awesome, powered-by-awesome, with great buckets of awesome dripping from him.  You’re just there to bear witness to the majesty of his awesomeness.  You’re moment was much more personal, and much more touching.

So, to me, the ending was contrived and forced.  And, really, the wrong tone for a Shadowrun game.  Though, the resolution to the basic story is truly Shadowrun.

[Bob Schroeck]

Huh. I've always played Mossad as very polite and professional, so I didn't even consider that there might be a karma penalty for being rough and gritty...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.