Spacebattles.com, Betryal and Exodus

[Matrix Dragon]

DRAMA!

[classicdrogn]

You want drama? From SV's Tsundere Non-Sharks thread:


--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[M Fnord]

Y'know, right about now I want to start slapping people on SV for being incredibly melodramatic idiots. Yes this isn't a good situation on SB, no you shouldn't start posting all your s and shrieking about the end of all things. Until such time as the admins say "yeah, it's over" nothing has been settled.

Fucking internet.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Dartz]

Relevant music.

Never mind that that all they need to do is delete the Bigabytes. I'm sure there's plenty of old trash and BRoB's that can just be memory-holed.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[classicdrogn]

You, er, may be taking people's reactions a little too seriously, Mal. Sure, it IS a legitimately bad situation with SB, but you've got to know how people tend to vie for who can post the biggest display of alarm by now. Kind of like a bunch of teenage boys telling each other about how far they've gotten with their dates, one and all exaggerating "just a little" to look cool to their buddies.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[M Fnord]

I don't care about their motivations dude. I just want them to stop.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[robkelk]

...
Second, just last night it was announced that the server's running dangerously low on hard drive space. Members are being told to limit their posts or even stop posting in the meantime. The admins are trying their best to put temporary fixes to the problem, but a truly permanent solution would require access to the actual hardware; only the owner of the site has that access, and he's rarely available.
...

Have they never heard of Network Attached Storage or Storage Area Network?

http://cloud.google.com/products/cloud-storage/]Google has.

This is not an issue. This is an excuse.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bluemage]

robkelk wrote:

---

Tennie wrote:

---

...
Second, just last night it was announced that the server's running dangerously low on hard drive space. Members are being told to limit their posts or even stop posting in the meantime. The admins are trying their best to put temporary fixes to the problem, but a truly permanent solution would require access to the actual hardware; only the owner of the site has that access, and he's rarely available.
...

Have they never heard of Network Attached Storage or Storage Area Network?
Google has.

This is not an issue. This is an excuse.

It's an issue when the people who run the site have little/no communication with the guy who owns/keeps/runs the server.  Wasn't the SB 'server' basically one of the owner/founder's home computers?

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[robkelk]

robkelk wrote:

Tennie wrote:...

Second, just last night it was announced that the server's running dangerously low on hard drive space. Members are being told to limit their posts or even stop posting in the meantime. The admins are trying their best to put temporary fixes to the problem, but a truly permanent solution would require access to the actual hardware; only the owner of the site has that access, and he's rarely available.

...

Have they never heard of Network Attached Storage or Storage Area Network?

Google has.

This is not an issue. This is an excuse.

It's an issue when the people who run the site have little/no communication with the guy who owns/keeps/runs the server. Wasn't the SB 'server' basically one of the owner/founder's home computers?

All the more reason to go with attached storage instead of local storage - one can more easily move the app somewhere else if/when necessary.

(I'm assuming they have access to the forum software settings and thus can add remote disk, of course - if they don't, never mind.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bluemage]

robkelk wrote:

---

All the more reason to go with attached storage instead of local storage - one can more easily move the app somewhere else if/when necessary.

(I'm assuming they have access to the forum software settings and thus can add remote disk, of course - if they don't, never mind.)

Local storage is probably the best option- it just has a long implementation lead time.
From what I know of servers and hosting (not as much as a full admin, but I have hands-on experience) you're best off having your storage all in the same place- the same site as your server, as tightly linked to the server as possible.  Having your storage in the server itself is best, followed by external drive racks with dedicated connections.  SATA external is third, followed by non-dedicated Ethernet connection or USB, depending on which USB standard and the local Ethernet load.
Using a remote system for your data storage is possible, but your software has to be written for it, and you're going to eat lag three ways- data request to storage, data received from storage, and data out to client.  Not optimal, speed-wise- not to mention the reliability issues cloud anything tends to have!  It's good enough for data backups at the current start of the art/'net, I've found, but not for active use- especially for a site with the kind of load SB gets.

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[classicdrogn]

My opinion on cloud-anything can be summed up in the fact that I bought a chromebook, jailbroke it, and had a real desktop installation underway before the battery finished charging the first time. If it ain't on my disks, it don't exist.

Edit: And now (as of 9:30ish Eastern I think it was) everything is shut down, so you can't even view old stuff. Ah well, hopefully it'll come back as a readable archive at least... and in the mean time, there's SV, which got a RAM upgrade today to handle the increased load. So much better to have physical access to the server...
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Tennie]

Yeesh, three major crises within a two month period...to me, it feels a lot like the Perfect Storm to SB's Andrea Gail.  One can only hope that there isn't a rogue wave waiting for them near the end of all this (knock on wood!)...

There's no doubt that 2014 will become The Year of the Crisis for SB/SV's community.

[Matrix Dragon]

Please, it's not Space Battles without FORUM DRAMAH. This is normal for them.

[Tennie]

Please, it's not Space Battles without FORUM DRAMAH. This is normal for them.

Well, it is called Space Battles, after all!

[robkelk]

robkelk wrote:All the more reason to go with attached storage instead of local storage - one can more easily move the app somewhere else if/when necessary.

(I'm assuming they have access to the forum software settings and thus can add remote disk, of course - if they don't, never mind.)

Local storage is probably the best option- it just has a long implementation lead time.

From what I know of servers and hosting (not as much as a full admin, but I have hands-on experience) you're best off having your storage all in the same place- the same site as your server, as tightly linked to the server as possible. Having your storage in the server itself is best, followed by external drive racks with dedicated connections. SATA external is third, followed by non-dedicated Ethernet connection or USB, depending on which USB standard and the local Ethernet load.

Using a remote system for your data storage is possible, but your software has to be written for it, and you're going to eat lag three ways- data request to storage, data received from storage, and data out to client. Not optimal, speed-wise- not to mention the reliability issues cloud anything tends to have! It's good enough for data backups at the current start of the art/'net, I've found, but not for active use- especially for a site with the kind of load SB gets.

This does not match with my knowledge of external storage. (Except for the part about storage over USB being bad - but how many servers even have USB ports?)

There's no reason software has to be written to specifically use external storage - just configure the external storage as a virtual drive, and it's presented to the software exactly the same way as a local drive. Yes, this requires root/admin rights on the server.

Data lag is trivial unless your connection is running slower than T1 speeds - and even home DSL connections run faster than T1 speeds nowadays. SB isn't connected to the Internet via dial-up, is it?

Local storage is tied to the physical server. This makes app portability difficult.

(EDIT: SATA? Really? Why choose so slow a disk? FC is the way to go.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Berk]

The biggest problem seems to be that the owner of the phyical server and the person who owns the domain (not the same person) seem to have fallen off the face of the planet.

SB is being run off of a computer in someone's basement, basically.
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead

[Bluemage]

robkelk wrote:

---

Bluemage wrote:

---

robkelk wrote:All the more reason to go with attached storage instead of local storage - one can more easily move the app somewhere else if/when necessary.

(I'm assuming they have access to the forum software settings and thus can add remote disk, of course - if they don't, never mind.)

Local storage is probably the best option- it just has a long implementation lead time.

From what I know of servers and hosting (not as much as a full admin, but I have hands-on experience) you're best off having your storage all in the same place- the same site as your server, as tightly linked to the server as possible. Having your storage in the server itself is best, followed by external drive racks with dedicated connections. SATA external is third, followed by non-dedicated Ethernet connection or USB, depending on which USB standard and the local Ethernet load.

Using a remote system for your data storage is possible, but your software has to be written for it, and you're going to eat lag three ways- data request to storage, data received from storage, and data out to client. Not optimal, speed-wise- not to mention the reliability issues cloud anything tends to have! It's good enough for data backups at the current start of the art/'net, I've found, but not for active use- especially for a site with the kind of load SB gets.

This does not match with my knowledge of external storage. (Except for the part about storage over USB being bad - but how many servers even have USB ports?)

There's no reason software has to be written to specifically use external storage - just configure the external storage as a virtual drive, and it's presented to the software exactly the same way as a local drive. Yes, this requires root/admin rights on the server.

Data lag is trivial unless your connection is running slower than T1 speeds - and even home DSL connections run faster than T1 speeds nowadays. SB isn't connected to the Internet via dial-up, is it?

Local storage is tied to the physical server. This makes app portability difficult.
(EDIT: SATA? Really? Why choose so slow a disk? FC is the way to go.)

Every cloud storage/data server solution I've worked with at my current job (100Mb/sec fiber connection) has had some pretty serious lag, compared to when we keep the data on our local network.  Admittedly, the ones I've had the most hands-on experience with have been Microsoft's recent offerings, so that might just be a M$ thing, but that's what I've consistently observed.
On a theoretical level, I don't see how it can't be.  Depending on how your storage system
works, you're talking about going from A(client)->B(server)->A to
A->B->C(cloud storage)->B->A or A->B->C->A. 
That's upping time spent in transmission (as well as signal processing)
by 1/3 to 2/3.  Add to that that each hop in that model is actually more
like 10-20 different servers, and you're looking at a lot of waste. 
Now multiply that by a few hundred (since each transmission takes up
capacity that might've been used to send the next) to get a ballpark for
SB's userbase (I figure they might, might peak near a thousand at once), and you definitely get nontrivial lag for most users.
Also, yes, you can just map it to a drive letter and use it that way- I was totally off-base about that part.  I suspect that there might be purpose-built software that'd be more efficient about it, but that would work.
Either way, we can at least agree that SB's server isn't moving at (heh) sufficient velocity, and needs to be upgraded.

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[LynnInDenver]

Bluemage wrote:

---

robkelk wrote:

---

Bluemage wrote:

---

Local storage is probably the best option- it just has a long implementation lead time.

From what I know of servers and hosting (not as much as a full admin, but I have hands-on experience) you're best off having your storage all in the same place- the same site as your server, as tightly linked to the server as possible. Having your storage in the server itself is best, followed by external drive racks with dedicated connections. SATA external is third, followed by non-dedicated Ethernet connection or USB, depending on which USB standard and the local Ethernet load.

Using a remote system for your data storage is possible, but your software has to be written for it, and you're going to eat lag three ways- data request to storage, data received from storage, and data out to client. Not optimal, speed-wise- not to mention the reliability issues cloud anything tends to have! It's good enough for data backups at the current start of the art/'net, I've found, but not for active use- especially for a site with the kind of load SB gets.

This does not match with my knowledge of external storage. (Except for the part about storage over USB being bad - but how many servers even have USB ports?)

There's no reason software has to be written to specifically use external storage - just configure the external storage as a virtual drive, and it's presented to the software exactly the same way as a local drive. Yes, this requires root/admin rights on the server.

Data lag is trivial unless your connection is running slower than T1 speeds - and even home DSL connections run faster than T1 speeds nowadays. SB isn't connected to the Internet via dial-up, is it?

Local storage is tied to the physical server. This makes app portability difficult.
(EDIT: SATA? Really? Why choose so slow a disk? FC is the way to go.)

Every cloud storage/data server solution I've worked with at my current job (100Mb/sec fiber connection) has had some pretty serious lag, compared to when we keep the data on our local network.  Admittedly, the ones I've had the most hands-on experience with have been Microsoft's recent offerings, so that might just be a M$ thing, but that's what I've consistently observed.
On a theoretical level, I don't see how it can't be.  Depending on how your storage system
works, you're talking about going from A(client)->B(server)->A to
A->B->C(cloud storage)->B->A or A->B->C->A. 
That's upping time spent in transmission (as well as signal processing)
by 1/3 to 2/3.  Add to that that each hop in that model is actually more
like 10-20 different servers, and you're looking at a lot of waste. 
Now multiply that by a few hundred (since each transmission takes up
capacity that might've been used to send the next) to get a ballpark for
SB's userbase (I figure they might, might peak near a thousand at once), and you definitely get nontrivial lag for most users.
Also, yes, you can just map it to a drive letter and use it that way- I was totally off-base about that part.  I suspect that there might be purpose-built software that'd be more efficient about it, but that would work.
Either way, we can at least agree that SB's server isn't moving at (heh) sufficient velocity, and needs to be upgraded.

As near as I can tell, the principle reasons this has gotten as bad as it has for them, is that the guy who owns the domain is completely incommunicado, and the guy that owns the server doesn't care (and probably won't even notice if it actually does fall over), and the only other guy who has basically superuser and physical access to the server itself (rather than just admin access to the forum software) is reluctant to do much because it's not actually his box. Unless one of those can be changed, they aren't getting more storage, nor is anything going to get deleted to provide a fix.
--

"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor

[Inquisitive Raven]

Apparently somebody did manage to get to the physical hardware long enough to delete some crap, but even so, the forum's down again.
Here's the message you get if you try to access it:

SpaceBattles.com










"SB is turned off?? Say it ain't so! If only I
had something, ANYTHING else to do but SB is my life!" is how I picture
your reaction right now.

How accurate was I? Be honest on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being "not at
all" and 10 being "totally accurate." Just go ahead and post your
resp.... oh, yeah, forgot about the whole SB being turned off thing.

Sorry guys but if I get this to work it will be well worth the wait! If
not, I'll turn it back on and you'll have no idea what I was trying to
do.

-TO

[classicdrogn]

Yeah... kinda jackassy, but hopefully something positive will actually result from it. And, well, there is the alternative available if not.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

[Bob Schroeck]

It's back up right now. At least, I was able to hit the Candle In The Dark thread with no problems.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Tennie]

Well, the admins have announced that the server problem has been fixed, for now at least (knock on wood!).  Nothing yet on the registration question, though.

[Black Aeronaut]

Tennie wrote:

---

Nothing yet on the registration question, though.

For that alone people should be migrating to Sufficient Velocity.  Without new users being able to register the place will eventually turn into an echo box, and if you're a serious writer that's the last thing you'd want.  That said, I hope they do figure that particular issue out soon.  Even more, I hope that this miscreant isn't a member of SV - it'd be the last thing we need.

[Tennie]

More good news from SB:

REGISTRATION IS BACK!