Saturn V Engines on NASA's SLS launch system!

[Logan Darklighter]

Wow! Awesome! I always wondered why we didn't reproduce the mighty F1 Engines from the first stage of the Saturn V all these years. Even bought some of the urban myths that NASA had lost or thrown out all the plans/blueprints. 

Nope! Turns out they had them properly archived all along, and a group of engineers finally got around to getting the ball rolling by asking the simple question: "What can we learn from these old engines and can we make modern versions?" 

The answers according to this article is - "More than you'd think possible" and "YES!" 

Looks like NASA's SLS launch system has a good chance of having some modernized F1 Saturn Engines lifting Orion and other payloads to orbit! ^_^
How NASA brought the monstrous F1 Moon Rocket back to life.

[Bob Schroeck]

How freaking cool is that? Wow.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Black Aeronaut]

Oooh yeah. I saw this one a while back. I was going to post it here, but I guess I didn't for some reason. *shrugs*

But it is VERY cool indeed.

[Logan Darklighter]

"Because they didn't have the analytical tools we have today for minimizing weight, everything was very robust," noted Betts, when I asked what they found as they tore down the engine. "That's apparent in really every aspect of the engine. The welds—"
"Oh, the welds!" interrupted Case. "The welds on this engine are just a work of art, and everything on here was welded." The admiration in his voice was obvious. "Today, we look at ways of reducing that, but that was something I picked up on from this engine: just how many welds there were, and how great they looked."

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/u ... -welds.jpg

"You look at a weld that takes a day," he continued, "and there are thousands of them. And these guys were pumping engines out every two months. It's amazing what they could do back then and all the touch labor it took."

"One thing I notice when I look back at older engines," commented Coates, the senior engineer, "was just like Nick and Erin were alluding to: the complexity of the welds. You didn't have the kind of advanced manufacturing we had today, so quite honestly, these were hand-made machines. They were sewn together with arc welders, and it's pretty amazing to see how smooth and elegant it came out. Today, you'd look at doing precision casting, not these thousands of welds."

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/u ... welds2.jpg
Check out the links to the ENORMOUS images above that show the amazing - almost machine precision welds. Now step back and consider - again - that each of those was NOT done by a machine, but by HAND. 
Holy crap... My admiration is off the charts! 

[Logan Darklighter]

Link to the even bigger original image.

[Black Aeronaut]

I know what you mean, Logan. Back when I was in high school, one of the schools I was at actually had an elective course called 'Engineering Graphics' - which is a flowery way of saying 'Drafting'.

The class was split into two parts - half of us learning on Cadkey for DOS, and the other half doing it the old fashioned way on drafting boards. And halfway through the semester we switched. Gotta say, I loved every minute of it.

Fast-forward to years later when I'm working as a maintenance man in a shopping mall. In the maintenance office, they have blueprints dating back to when the mall was first built back in the 70's...

...which meant that all that shit was hand lettered.

As far as I was concerned, those blueprints were all fucking works of art, and no one can convince me otherwise.

[ECSNorway]

Yeah. There's a -reason- why high-end CAD/CAM packages run thousands of dollars. Because they're replicating that level of skill and dedication. I had a drafting course myself in HS, to fulfill an art requirement, and it was... impressive.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Logan Darklighter]

Sorry for the thread necro, but I believe you'll agree that it was for a good cause when you look below. 
So I was in Alamogordo on some business today and decided to take a side trip to the Space Museum. 
Well how about that - there's a Saturn V F1 Engine on display! I remembered this thread and I decided to get some pics - particularly some up-close pics. 

And I put my hand in there on purpose just so you could see the actual scale of the welds. 
Holy crap. 

If you look in the large picture below. Then dead center and just above the bell (to the right of it since it's horizontal) is that "three-pronged" structure featured in one of the images in one of the above posts. 
(There are links to the full-size images (HUGE) after each pic if you really want to zoom in) 

http://i.imgur.com/NjSMT5K.jpg
This pic with my hand in it is along the "bell" of the engine. http://i.imgur.com/cd28ymz.png
I actually have fairly large hands - so take that into account when looking at the scale here. And realize that this entire section is welded with something like a 1-1/2 Inch wide LAYERED weld that is at least 2 or 3 layers deep. And if it's not "machine precision", then it's only because they decided to brute force the heck out of the structural integrity on this one. 

These guys were NOT messing around here! 


http://i.imgur.com/gY3o7Vb.png

Here's "the business end". I wasn't sure if this was going to come out well with the exposure, but it turned out beautifully. So much so that you can actually see the pinholes in the fuel separation/dispersion plate at the far end! (click on the link below the pic for the REALLY large version to see what I mean)
http://i.imgur.com/6DjCI5O.jpg

Anyway - thought you guys might appreciate some hard-core machine geekery. ^_^

[Rajvik]

Another thing to remember is that this was not wire or tig welds but what we call stick welds. At a guess from the photos I would say that they did something like 20 passes with eighth inch 6011 rods and then covered it with a dozen or so passes of eighth inch 7018