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I personally dislike the idea of simply tossing an entire section of examples. Is anything in it prurient or actionable? (I'm at work, I'm not going to look at it until I'm at home, just to be on the safe side.)
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:I personally dislike the idea of simply tossing an entire section of examples. Is anything in it prurient or actionable? (I'm at work, I'm not going to look at it until I'm at home, just to be on the safe side.) Nothing in Professional Sex Ed#Real Life is prurient. There are five entries: two are general cases, two reference particular books (so we can say we were reporting on the contents of those books if we're sued), and one is an aversion.
However, there's also Too Kinky to Torture#Real Life (not including a link here)... Thirteen examples, some of which might be prurient, actionable, or both.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
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Rob, maybe edit the template to make your stock phrases default options? Like {{noreallife|squick=1}}
I feel like real life sections should, in general, be limited to notable things. I'm just imagining an example for Freudian Trio like "* [[This Troper] and his two friends. Geth is the id, Brent is the superego, and Bob is the ego." It might be interesting to the poster, but does anyone else care?
Anyway, the real reason I'm posting is because I wanted to get y'all's input on alphabetization rules. Style Guide stuff. Now that I have a bot that has been automatically alphabetizing tropelists, I need a clear set of rules, because some of the changes surprised me. - I decided that tropes should not be alphabetized based on English articles. This means that [[The Dragon] would float up to the D's, soon to be joined by [[A Day in the Limelight]. [[La Dolce Vita] will not be joining them. But it looks like the existing rule put the "A" tropes at the top while mixing in the "the"s. Was my choice the correct one?
- I have a general belief that spaces should be sorted before non-spaces. So "Modern Tropes" would sort before "Modernism". Should I ignore the spaces instead? This seemed to be the TVT standard, because of sorting on CamelCase.
- What about punctuation? Should hyphens be considered in sort order? Should commas or quote marks? We've got a lot of parentheses, too. Both spaces and punctuation are part of the unicode standard's 'variable' block (see UTS #10), which means the programmer SHOULD choose how to handle it. Right now I'm ignoring punctuation for sort order (well actually considering at level 4, "tiebreaker"). Is this the best approach?
As usual Unicode is a rabbit hole of natural language edge cases and implementation problems, but at least it gets you to think about the right questions.
-- ∇×V
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We could edit the template, sure. We'd just need to update the existing uses of the template so that they wouldn't be broken if the template is changed.
I'm old enough to remember how telephone books sorted entries: - Ignore articles (a, an, the, le, la, les, and so on) at the beginning of the name but keep them in the remainder of the name
- Ignore spaces
- Ignore punctuation
- Ignore case
- Treat accented characters as non-accented characters
- Spell out numbers
(Although that last condition has ambiguities - for example, does one spell "1984" as "one thousand nine hundred eighty four" and sort it under O or as "nineteen hundred eighty four" and sort it under N?)
On the freebie wiki, we're using the "ignore articles at the beginning of the name" and "treat accented characters as non-accented characters" rules, but otherwise sorting by Unicode UTF-8 order (which means sorting on spaces) ... although I am cheating slightly by giving all index pages a defaultsort key of a single space so that they appear together in category listings.
I like the "ignore articles at the beginning of the name" rule, and I know Bob also uses it - but we grew up with it. Has anybody commented on it one way or the other? If general users hate it, we should stop implementing it; if general users like it or don't care, we should continue implementing it and get those "A " pages where they belong.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Now that I have my mod hat back, an announcement
03-28-2017, 05:58 AM
Brent recently decided to restore my mod bit, as can been seen in the user rights log, and while I do plan to use it for ATT related duties when needed, I have other matters I'm working on now.
In accordance with private matters the two of us have discussed, I will be refraining from certain activities that necessitated why I demodded myself willinglly for however long is needed in accordance with things we discussed privately.
In the event I am seen as causing a disruption that could bring harm to ATT, on or off wiki, call me out again, and I will willingly hand over power for however is seen as justifiable, as the last thing I want to do is bring harm to ATT by my actions, either directly or indirectly.
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Standard alphabetization rules that I grew up with included:
* Ignoring the article, which I think we're all in agreement on. I've been setting DEFAULTSORT on anything starting with "a/an/the" so that they're ignored by automatic sorting on the wiki.
* Space counts, and comes before letters.
* Ignore punctuation. I've been setting the occasional DEFAULTSORT to handle this as well.
* Numerals before letters; don't sort as though they were spelled out.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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All this talk about alphabetization rules and leading articles made me realize we didn't have a page for the '80s UK post-punk band "The The" - so I slapped together a stub, and am waiting for the 504 and 503 errors to stop so that I can actually add it to the wiki.
Yes, I've included {{DEFAULTSORT:The, The}} in the text. I know that in this particular case it does nothing, but it's there to show we know about the definite article at the start of the page name.
--
Rob Kelk
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- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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So I think I had already implemented what Bob suggested. Specifically I'm doing:
Unicode::Collate->new( variable => 'shifted', entry => "0020 ; [.0209.0020.0002] # SPACE
" )
Which is to say to use the use the UCS 10 collation, using punctuation and whitespace as the last level tiebreaker, but to treat a normal space as a standard character and consider it at level 1 instead. In theory I should add some of the other whitespace characters, like maybe full-width space, but I really doubt that's going to be an issue.
From the standards document:[table] |
ages Needing Images" to the page if the "image" line is left blank. I might be able to code a SUBST to add the page name as the title if the "title" line is left blank, but I won't promise that; it might be processor-intensive.