All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XIII

[Bob Schroeck]

Guys, could someone else take a look at this edit and offer an opinion on whether the delete was appropriate or not?

Thanks.

[robkelk]

I don't know enough about the game to say whether the deletion was justified. The example seemed to me to be well-phrased, though.

That editor hasn't edited any pages other than that one, and didn't give an edit reason...

[Black Aeronaut]

Looking at the introduction to that trope, isn't villains that are "just too cool to hate" a trope in and of itself? It's definitely not Affable Evil.

[robkelk]

I see a Miraheze-wide sitenotice:

If you use a *.miraheze.org domain or a domain that dosen't use letsencrypt you can ignore this. If you use a custom domain then please read on. Due to a fault on our side a private key associated with your custom domain may have been compromised. This private key allows users to intercept any traffic related to your wiki which could result in compromised user accounts. We are currently generating new certificates for all custom domains.

What's up? There's no phabricator link in the notice to follow for details.

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm thinking of whupping Jason taylor upside the head with the tempban stick again. He's starting to forget/ignore basic style requirements -- like putting a quote in quote markup -- again.

[robkelk]

I'm thinking of whupping Jason taylor upside the head with the tempban stick again. He's starting to forget/ignore basic style requirements -- like putting a quote in quote markup -- again.

You know his posts better than I do, Bob. I'll defer to your judgment here.

[Bob Schroeck]

Better to start with a formal warning that includes links to our style page(s), I think. But yeah.

[robkelk]

YKTTW somebody's given the perfect setup for a punchline, but says something else instead? What do we call that?

example (in the last two panels)

[Bob Schroeck]

Sounds like a variation on Anti-Humor, or maybe an inversion of Orphaned Punchline.

[robkelk]

We just received an offer from a new user to help with grammar. Bob, not to name names (starting with Jason), but I'm sure you can use the help.
thread

[Black Aeronaut]

YKTTW somebody's given the perfect setup for a punchline, but says something else instead? What do we call that?

example (in the last two panels)

Sounds like a variation on Anti-Humor, or maybe an inversion of Orphaned Punchline.

Possible relation to The Shaggy Dog joke?

EDIT: Also, no one has commented on my last post...

Looking at the introduction to that trope, isn't villains that are "just too cool to hate" a trope in and of itself? It's definitely not Affable Evil.

Kinda curious about this...

[robkelk]

Sorry about that. I ask about "what trope is this" more often than I answer that sort of question...

[Bob Schroeck]

Still thinking about an answer to yours, BA. Several tropes, like Anti-Villain, circle around around or near the idea but aren't it. Maybe it would help if you listed the character or characters that suggested the idea to you.

[Bob Schroeck]

We just received an offer from a new user to help with grammar. Bob, not to name names (starting with Jason), but I'm sure you can use the help.

Thanks. I'll touch base with him.

[Bob Schroeck]

It's nice that 2hadow wants to help.

Unfortunately, he's taken it upon himself to put "== References ==" on every page he sees right above the {{reflist}} markup, whether the page has footnotes or not.

EDIT: Dammit, if he doesn't stop by tonight I'm tempbanning him for unilaterally deciding to change an aspect of the wiki style without asking anyone.

EDIT2: Godsdammit he's putting reference headers on laconic pages. And he's decided they're stubs and need to be marked up that way.

EDIT3: Someone check this set of edits, where he nuked over 4K of material without transplanting it somewhere else. Is it justified? (It looks like someone undid it later, but still...)

EDIT4: He decided what looks to be a perfectly valid category change is "vandalism" and reverted it. Twice.

EDIT5: He's now taken it upon himself to threaten bans -- on someone with two edits, both category changes. Rob, encouraging this guy was a mistake. I'm stopping him now before he does any more damage.

[robkelk]

All The Tropes:Style Guide now has a section on Section Headers.

And I've called him on your EDIT3.

[robkelk]

Oh, boy. Now it's "2Cute4U" on the freebie wiki - new account, immediate vandalism of the User page on a wiki that simply doesn't get vandalism, unilateral decisions to change the look-and-feel of the wiki... I've just asked for a CheckUser on these two.

[Bob Schroeck]

Just gave 2hadow 48 hours to acknowledge the messages we posted on his usertalk, and laid out what will happen if he doesn't -- a one-week tempban, followed by permabanning if he continues to ignore us.

Of course, this might be moot if the CheckUser reveals he's playing games with us.

EDIT: Just followed the link above to see if there was news, and yeah, there is, and yeah, he's been banned at the farm level. So much for that generosity.

[robkelk]

Yeah. I'm going to go clean up after 2hadow/2Cute4U on the freebie wiki.

[robkelk]

And some cleanup on ATT, while I'm at it. Including an admission that we were taken in.

[Black Aeronaut]

Still thinking about an answer to yours, BA.  Several tropes, like Anti-Villain, circle around around or near the idea but aren't it.  Maybe it would help if you listed the character or characters that suggested the idea to you.

Okay, so...

The basic idea, as far as I'm concerned so you may take this with as little or as much salt as you like, is that A Villain Too Cool to Hate is related to other villainous tropes like Magnificent Bastard, but has its own set of qualifications.  For example, a Magnificent Bastard is still someone you can despise because they're just that despicable.  Also not to be confused with Affably Evil, as that's just a villain that does horrible terrible things while being goddamned -polite- about it!  Also, not an Anti-Villain or Anti-Hero since, as the names imply, neither are true villains.

Too Cool to Hate, on the other hand is more like, "Okay.  This dude doesn't have many redeeming qualities, but GOD DAMN if that wasn't awesome!"

Possible examples of Too Cool to Hate are some of the more modern interpretations of Lex Luthor (particularly the 90's animated series version - yes, the man is a reprehensible bastard, but he does it with style and aplomb).  Also, David Xanatos from Gargoyles, who we already know in tropage for Xanatos Gambit and Thirty Xanatos Pileup.

Another I'd nominate would be Sephiroth from FFVII.  Especially the version we see in Advent Children.  (That smug-as-fuck smile when he shows up, followed by that oh-so-cool-and-cordial "Hello Cloud" sold it on the spot.)

DARTH.  FREAKIN'.  VADER.  'Nuff said.  (Seriously, if any of the rest of the SW materials didn't sell it, then his appearance in Rogue One should have sealed the deal.  "Be careful that you do not choke on your ambition.")

Possible: Heath Ledger's take on The Joker - quite possibly the most perfect rendition we have ever seen of the insane, homicidal clown.

Hannibal Lecter: yes, he is creepy and sadistic.  But damn if he doesn't make it interesting, even epic at times.

Beetlejuice: It's hard not to like The Ghost with The Most, unless you're the type that's got a stick up your butt when it comes to slapstick and mayhem.  Although it's debatable if he's actually an anti-villain.

Captain Hook - the portrayal by Dustin Hoffman in the film Hook damn-near stole the show at times.

Darkness - The makeup on this character was phenomenal, but Tim Curry brings him to life in a way I don't think anyone else could.

That's all I got for now.

Thoughts?

[Bob Schroeck]

Hmmm. Let me ruminate on that for a while.

[Bob Schroeck]

Getting tired of Jason's crap on Media Research Failure/Film. He is either being deliberately stupid or he simply can't understand what we're asking of him, and I can't decide what is worse. I'll tell you this, though -- if he deletes that passage instead of correcting it, or some other passive-aggressive crap, one more time I'm going to tempban him for a week.

[Bob Schroeck]

Wiki is down again with 500s and a "Page is not working" message in Chrome. Has been for about 20 minutes.

EDIT: Grrr. No sooner do I type that than it comes back.

[Bob Schroeck]

Wow, Miraheze's not kidding about having no space for uploads. I tried a 51kb image, just to see, and nope, no go.

Hope this gets solved soon.