COVID-19 & US healthcare system

[Jenova_Silverstar]

Why investigate? Senators are immune from insider trading laws.

Actually, the STOCK Act applies here. They are not immune.

[Star Ranger4]

and there is a 33% chance that this is the year to do it.

[Jinx999]

Now is not the time to waste the court's time.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documen...-Order.pdf

[Rajvik]

Actually WHO said there was a problem on January 7, but that is neither here nor there.

Also, there is no ability to impeach either a member of congress, nor a senator. they can be censored, they can be voted out, and i believe there is one other measure to remove them but i can't remember what it is at the moment.

now, back to my, irritation and contention.

... You know what? Yeah, I'm going to ignore the bigoted asshole. Bye.

Yeah, love you too Matrix

Was anyone blaming Trump? For turning down the WHO test kits, I suppose, and responses that are more style than substance. 

considering the first reaction by the media was to call him a xenophobe when he instated the original travel ban, and then belittle his reactions at every step, yes. The WHO tests were throwing out to many false positives and false negatives and needed to be improved, the new ones surprisingly do that. Matrix, this one covers you as well, i can't speak for the Australian government's response, that's your row to hoe, but i would suggest, again as i am about to with Dartz, that you are over estimating the ability of socialized medicine.

Triage is expected in any healthcare system. What's happening in Italy is what happens in any disaster where there're not enough medics to deal with the casualties. Some people are given the black tag because they can't be saved - so it would waste resources to try and save them. Never mind that Italy-contray to the reputation of the Italian Government - has one of the most capable medical systems in the world.

Dartz, Triage would be postponing any elective surgeries that will take up hospital beds in lieu of taking care of the people affected by this, Triage would be looking at the sick with significant age and/or pre-existing conditions and trying to preemptively isolate them so that they do NOT come into contact with the disease. Triage at this stage is NOT sending a coughing 80 year old back home because you don't have the bed space and the younger people are able to be more productive than the pensioner. The younger generations are not suffering from this as much as the elderly so long as they aren't immune compromised.

Rob can probably confirm this, but in Canada with their socialized medical system, you are assured a hospital bed, IN TWO MONTHS. Thats right, a two month backlog on their hospital space, and that is without the system getting pressured by an outside source. Hazard, concerning your comments to this subject, The US's elders are not going to be turned away because they are too poor, they have medicare/medicaid same as the general poor. the people who will be turned away because they are too poor are the poor bastards feeding the system with their damn paychecks. And you can add to that that the half measures you speak of to placate the masses and say We did the best we could with what we had is a platitude that will not be accepted.

And frankly? Globalism isn't much of a factor here. Cheap and fast international travel for tourists is, and that would be a big thing even if globalism wasn't

Globalism is not simply an economic thing Hazzard, that cheap fast EASY, international travel is also a part of it. there were times when you had to have certain immunizations to go between countries, a health card was part of your Passport. i recently helped my sister get her passport because she might have need to travel across the border into Canada to pick up a load to escort back down into the US, or to deliver one up there. I was actually surprised to find that they didn't need a health list of her immunizations from a doctor stating that her shots were up to date, and why is this? because we believe we have effectively eliminated the worlds diseases that are not AIDS the common flu and the common cold.

This was a problem that started, probably in the wake of Vietnam i would guess, though the seeds for it were probably planted in the wake of either WWII or Korea, soldiers with war brides wanting to bring the wife's family over easier voted for people who would make it easier, and lets face it, if they were coming through a military base, the usually got the needed shots. Now we have had a seasonal measles outbreak every year for the last few years between the anti-vaxxer idiots and people crossing the border without being medically checked, and yet you have people in the halls of power that basically want to throw the border open and say "I don't care how sick you are, come on in and we'll fix you right up, no money needed."

Also Hazzard, the Netherlands has a total population of about 17.4 MILLION people where the US has 328 TRILLION and change, the Netherlands has roughly twice the population of New Jersey although they are all stuffed into an area about the size of Connecticut (at a glance and a guess). that said, HUGE difference in all statistics that basically blows any ratio comparison to hell.

quite frankly i'll leave things here, i'm getting too worked up, but yes you can question, yes you can disagree, but by the gods, help who you can and stay calm

[robkelk]

Rob can probably confirm this, but in Canada with their socialized medical system, you are assured a hospital bed, IN TWO MONTHS. Thats right, a two month backlog on their hospital space, and that is without the system getting pressured by an outside source.

If you must spread anti-Medicare propaganda, please don't attach my name to it.

And I'd appreciate it if you got the facts right, too. if you need a hospital bed in Canada, you get it. Right away. Somebody who's looking for cosmetic surgery might have to wait, but that's hardly a need, now is it?

[Matrix Dragon]

Yeah, love you too Matrix

Hey, you said we'd ignore you because of that. I give you what you want and you still complain? I swear, no pleasing some people...

And we're going into lockdown down here within the next 48 hours. I'm not sure where this leaves me on the work front, given we're not public facing and certainly not essential... find out tomorrow I guess.

[SilverFang01]

Remember when it was supposed to be Obama who was going to gut the Constitution and take away all our rights?

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/po...us-970935/

[SilverFang01]

Since some people seem to have an antagonistic relationship with reality, Real Law Reviews how the government is handling the pandemic.

[Black Aeronaut]

I really like this guy. He boils law down to "Explain It Like I'm 5" terms, and gives us all a healthy dose of reality.

[Rajvik]

ii love how he takes that "not responsible" line out of context, real non-bias here
critical but objective, yeah right
yes, pandemics can start in other countries and they damn well don't respect borders WHEN YOU LET EVERY ASSHOLE THOUGH THE DAMN THINGS WITHOUT ANY CHECKS!
If Obama wanted to battle a public health crisis, then why did he suck so bad at H!N1 and then literally BRING EBOLA INTO THE COUNTRY TO TREAT IT

Alright Silverfang, BA you guys wanna listen to this dressed up shithead hater go right ahead, i'm DONE

[robkelk]

If Obama wanted to battle a public health crisis, then why did he suck so bad at H!N1 and then literally BRING EBOLA INTO THE COUNTRY TO TREAT IT

As far as I am able to determine, no politician or government official ever acted to "literally bring" Thomas Eric Duncan into the USA.

You have just claimed otherwise - either that Thomas Eric Duncan was not Patient Zero in the USA, or that he was brought to North America.

Present your evidence.

[Norgarth]

yes, pandemics can start in other countries and they damn well don't respect borders WHEN YOU LET EVERY ASSHOLE THOUGH THE DAMN THINGS WITHOUT ANY CHECKS!
If Obama wanted to battle a public health crisis, then why did he suck so bad at H!N1 and then literally BRING EBOLA INTO THE COUNTRY TO TREAT IT

Yes Obama's people told Trump's team that, which may well have been a "learn from our mistakes, so you don't make the same ones" type message. (it was after said H1N1 and Ebola problems.

Unfortunately, even assuming Team Trump took that idea to heart, it seems most of those involved are no longer working for Trump, and so can't provide the plans they made to him.  Which may not work anyways if they relied on the existence of the Pandemic Response Office to spearhead or manage the response to the pandemic.

As for complaining about 'bringing ebola into the country to treat it', ummm, isn't that what Trump did by bringing all those Cruise ship passengers back to US soil?

[Matrix Dragon]

I thought he didn't want to do that because it made his numbers look bad?

[nocarename]

I thought he didn't want to do that because it made his numbers look bad?

That would be my understanding.

Also, US senators may be Censured, Expelled or not elected again. Congress adds Reprimand at the bottom of that list to replace Censured as the one with the fewest consequences.

[Labster]

Yeah, this was the one problem that could have been solved with a travel ban, and Trump missed his chance. That’s like his thing right? This problem looked exactly like a nail, but he was too busy pretending there was no problem.

Meanwhile, Canada seems to have single-handedly cancelled the Olympics this year.

[Black Aeronaut]

Out of context? Perhaps on a technicality.

Here's what he really said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13...ing-128971

So. Let's step back a moment here.

Trump is saying it's all Obama's fault - the classic standby for fuckhead racist rednecks that fly a confederate flag out front and hide the Nazi paraphernalia in the basement.

Here's the thing.

One of the big goals for Trump has been to undo just about everything Obama has done, such as the Affordable Healthcare Act (which, need I remind you, was just a reskinned version of Romney Care, which only adds to the degree of the pot calling the kettle black).

One of the things that he did was to pretty much fire anyone that had anything to do with any sort of response to a pandemic outbreak here in America, touting the slogan, "We can get them back whenever we want."

Yeah. Sure buddy. They're just gonna standby and not work just so they can come running once you call for them.

This idea of paying people to sit and wait for that one moment to shine is nothing new. Kings and emperors in ages past quite often kept people who were experts in specific matters, literally "on retainer". In fact, that was the title these people often held: Retainer.

Trump's excuse for getting rid of these people, these metaphorical retainers, was that he didn't want to be spending money on people to just sit around. But they don't just sit around. They spend their time sharpening their skills, running through scenarios, and just working on making better plans in general. "How can we improve?" If you ask me, that's a very worthwhile thing to be spending our taxpayer dollars on, because, as the Corona Virus has shown us, it's not a matter of IF it happens, but a matter of WHEN.

In other words, this is pretty much like paying for insurance. Except that Trump didn't want to pay for insurance. Because it'll never happen. Right? RIGHT!?

Fuck yeah it'll happen you orange painted idiot.

And then he has the gall to say, "I don't take responsibility at all." when he was the one that specifically ordered that the very mechanisms meant to defeat something like the Corona Virus to be dismantled.

Rajvik, you have no recourse here. Anything you say at this point is only going to be impotent and misdirected rage.

[Bob Schroeck]

Since some people seem to have an antagonistic relationship with reality

"Reality has a noted liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert

[robkelk]

Meanwhile, Canada seems to have single-handedly cancelled the Olympics this year.

Well, somebody had to, and the IOC and Japan weren't doing anything. So we did what needed to be done.

[Norgarth]

Meanwhile, Canada seems to have single-handedly cancelled the Olympics this year.

Well, somebody had to, and the IOC and Japan weren't doing anything. So we did what needed to be done.

Meh, we just made it official.  How many countries would actually have taken the time and effort to send teams anyways?  How many athletes would have been willing to go, risk catching Covid19, perform in front of empty stadiums, and have to go through quarantine when they got back again?

On the topic of paying people to sit around just in case you need them, isn't that basically what the military does? Sit around not doing much besides training until they're needed?

[robkelk]

Pretty much, yeah. Maybe the military should be disbanded when they're not needed, too - it would save a lot more money than closing down everything in the CDC would.

---

So, I hear on the radio that the US Senate is deadlocked on a relief bill. Some of you folks south of the border wanted a government that does nothing; I trust you're happy that you have what you wanted. If you aren't happy, then maybe you wanted the wrong thing.

---

So, I hear on the radio that the US Senate is deadlocked on a relief bill - with a vote of 47-47.

That means (almost) all the senators showed up to vote.

WHAT THE FUCK, US SEANTE???

EVERY OTHER LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER IN THE WORLD IS PRACTICING PHYSICAL DISTANCING AND SENDING ONLY A BARE QUORUM INTO THE CHAMBER TO PASS NECESSARY LEGISLATION!!!

I hope every single person who was in the chamber is now in two-week quarantine.

[classicdrogn]

I don't think telepresence is constitutionally acceptable, and of course they're not going to just agree on something and send a quorum in to rubber stamp it - that's dead at step one.

[SilverFang01]

Mitch McConnell is throwing a tantrum on the Senate floor because Democrats successfully blocked a bill that would basically give a 500 bn dollar slush fund to corporations without any oversight or guarantee that these same corporations won't fire workers and just pocket the money.

Oh, the tears he is crying because there is no time to debate. Well, if his turtleness hadn't decided to take a vacation just last week, there would not be a time crunch, would it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy...itol-hill/

[DHBirr]

So, I hear on the radio that the US Senate is deadlocked on a relief bill - with a vote of 47-47.

That means (almost) all the senators showed up to vote.

WHAT THE FUCK, US SEANTE???

EVERY OTHER LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER IN THE WORLD IS PRACTICING PHYSICAL DISTANCING AND SENDING ONLY A BARE QUORUM INTO THE CHAMBER TO PASS NECESSARY LEGISLATION!!!

I hope every single person who was in the chamber is now in two-week quarantine.

Speaking of which, Rand Paul got tested, on doctor's advice, on the 16th.  It turns out, he was  infected ... and for a week after the test he'd gone about his Senatorial bullsh— errrr, I mean "business," as usual.  How much of the Senate needs to be locked down now? 

-----
"Oh, my people had many gods. There was Conformity, and Authority, and Expense Account, and Opinion. And there was Status, whose symbols were many, and who rode in the great chariot Cadillac, which was almost a god itself. And there was Atombomb, the dread destroyer, who would some day come to end the world." — Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen, H. Beam Piper

[Black Aeronaut]

And apparently the bigots have been popping out of the woodwork.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/ch...tacks.html

If I see anyone out here harassing any of the Asian-Americans that live here, there are going to get a very unwelcome surprise.

[hazard]

"Reality has a noted liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert

More like liberals have a noted reality bias.

Seriously.


As for locking down the legislature. It's probably a good idea a good idea to quarantine them even if they aren't infected.