COVID-19 & US healthcare system - thread relapse

[SilverFang01]

Conservative radio host agrees with caller that vaping bleach might cure COVID-19: ‘You’re not crazy’

The caller, who identified himself as Zack from Stoughton, called into Boston’s WRKO-AM on Friday morning to talk about President Donald Trump’s dangerous suggestion to use disinfectants or powerful light internally to treat COVID-19.

“I’ve been thinking about this thing,” Zack began. “I was a smoker for years, I smoked about three packs a day, and I never liked this new vape thing coming out with the nicotine in it, but I also have a bunch of friends with big cleaning companies.”

After hearing an ad on Kuhner’s program offering a disinfecting service during the pandemic, Zack said he started connecting the dots and wondered whether vape pens could deliver bleach and other disinfecting chemicals into infected lungs.

“Maybe they could make some sort of vape that could help people, you know, that would atomize chemicals into your lungs and you could blow it out your nose,” Zack said. “Thinking outside the box is what we need to do now, and no one seems to want to do it. I don’t know if I’m crazy.”

The host assured the caller his idea was sound.

“No, you’re not,” Kuhner said. “Zack, you’re not crazy, and bingo — you said the word, you said the phrase. Thank you for that call. Thinking outside the box.”

“That’s literally what the president was doing yesterday,” Kuhner added. “That’s what a good chief executive does.”

They are a stupid people. We should let them pass.

[Labster]

The President said he would not give emergency funding to the US Postal Service unless they quadruple their prices, despite Congress' allocation of money.  If they do so, they will cost much, much more than their competitors, who don't have to deliver to every person.  It sounds like either way, the money will run out for the USPS in June.

So it looks like the plan to vote by mail during the second wave in November is dead.  As dead as the post office, and as dead as we're going to be after waiting in long lines with hundreds of people to vote.

Sadly, there is nothing we can do.  Just two months ago, Congress decided that a President cannot be impeached for refusing to pay money that Congress had lawfully appropriated to achieve political goals.  So killing the post office cannot be an impeachable offense, even if the post office is required by the constitution.

But vote we must, even if it kills us.  Just as fifty-four thousand Americans died in the Korean War, now fifty thousand have died to the coronavirus.  This is the price of freedom.

[hazard]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything of the sort. And please put the goalposts back where they were.

I said "animal testing", not "cost-effective animal testing". Considering how many billions of dollars are being thrown around during the pandemic response, financial concerns are - or at least should be - nonexistent.

My apologies. And I agree, financial concerns should be but the most minor concern in the pandemic response, even if only on the side of the governments who so dearly should desire an effective and safe vaccine as swiftly as possible.

However, my point, that currently researchers don't know which species would make a good test subject that can be used to represent humanity's response to COVID-19 specific medication or vaccines is still true. This is something that could and without doubt is being investigated, but right now testing with any species that is not human will not provide useful data because we don't know how to interpret the data such tests would deliver and translate it to humanity. That is something that, sadly, can only come from extensive and time consuming testing.

[Norgarth]

Conservative radio host agrees with caller that vaping bleach might cure COVID-19: ‘You’re not crazy’

The caller, who identified himself as Zack from Stoughton, called into Boston’s WRKO-AM on Friday morning to talk about President Donald Trump’s dangerous suggestion to use disinfectants or powerful light internally to treat COVID-19.

“I’ve been thinking about this thing,” Zack began. “I was a smoker for years, I smoked about three packs a day, and I never liked this new vape thing coming out with the nicotine in it, but I also have a bunch of friends with big cleaning companies.”

After hearing an ad on Kuhner’s program offering a disinfecting service during the pandemic, Zack said he started connecting the dots and wondered whether vape pens could deliver bleach and other disinfecting chemicals into infected lungs.

“Maybe they could make some sort of vape that could help people, you know, that would atomize chemicals into your lungs and you could blow it out your nose,” Zack said. “Thinking outside the box is what we need to do now, and no one seems to want to do it. I don’t know if I’m crazy.”

The host assured the caller his idea was sound.

“No, you’re not,” Kuhner said. “Zack, you’re not crazy, and bingo — you said the word, you said the phrase. Thank you for that call. Thinking outside the box.”

“That’s literally what the president was doing yesterday,” Kuhner added. “That’s what a good chief executive does.”

They are a stupid people. We should let them pass.

*shakes head in disbelief* fuck it, let them go ahead and do it, it's Trump's diehard supporters that will be dying, so there'll be few left to vote for him come November

[Dartz]

Aerosolised bleach?

Do you even Bleach and Vinegar bro?

[LynnInDenver]

The President said he would not give emergency funding to the US Postal Service unless they quadruple their prices, despite Congress' allocation of money.  If they do so, they will cost much, much more than their competitors, who don't have to deliver to every person.  It sounds like either way, the money will run out for the USPS in June.

So it looks like the plan to vote by mail during the second wave in November is dead.  As dead as the post office, and as dead as we're going to be after waiting in long lines with hundreds of people to vote.

Sadly, there is nothing we can do.  Just two months ago, Congress decided that a President cannot be impeached for refusing to pay money that Congress had lawfully appropriated to achieve political goals.  So killing the post office cannot be an impeachable offense, even if the post office is required by the constitution.

But vote we must, even if it kills us.  Just as fifty-four thousand Americans died in the Korean War, now fifty thousand have died to the coronavirus.  This is the price of freedom.

Looks like he's doing it more on his attempting to pressure Bezos to dump/restructure the Washington Post: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-healt...SKCN226367

Note: It would fly better politically if it were an across the board increase for 100% of shippers like Amazon and FedEx. But on the other side, the price increase we'd all have to suffer as a result, even if it were limited to packages, is a serious issue. And where do you draw the line between an individual's need to ship packages, and where someone is shipping enough to mandate they go to the corporate rate? At what Etsy volume do you require it? How do you enforce it?

Also, the biggest reason this is becoming an issue, as I recall, is that the Post Office is required to be "self sustaining", which in and of itself isn't a problem, but like the rest of the economy has become, means that it's exceptionally sensitive to sudden crisis knocks.

[Matrix Dragon]

Also, your postal service is required to prefund all its pensions until the 2080s, a unique requirement added by the Republicans somewhere around 2006 to 'prove' that it wouldn't work.

[robkelk]

Also, your postal service is required to prefund all its pensions until the 2080s, a unique requirement added by the Republicans somewhere around 2006 to 'prove' that it wouldn't work.

That just shows they Did Not Do The Research. Federal pensions in Canada have been funded that way for decades - why wouldn't it work in the USA?

[robkelk]

How hidden cases, testing blunders and political missteps doomed NYC's COVID-19 response

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Trump suffers political side-effects playing TV doctor during COVID-19 pandemic

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EDIT: And from north of the border: Why 'be kind, be calm and be safe' is more than just a catchphrase in B.C.'s COVID-19 fight

COVID-19 deaths per million people in North America and western Europe - in political entities with more than 5,000,000 population only - USA in red, Europe in orange, Canada in blue

[hazard]

New York is doing pretty poorly I see. Which is not unexpected, it's a state with some highly crowded urban areas in a nation with a creaky health care system that is deliberately being sabotaged by the highest level of government. It's also highly connected with the outside world, which makes it easy for pathogens to enter the population.

I wouldn't be too surprised if other states other than New Jersey (which is next door to New York and has another crowded urban area right across the river from New York City) are going to see major increases in COVID-19 cases as contagious people travel around due to be being members of the essential labour force.


The Netherlands I see are at only 250 death out of a million. 'Only'. This is partially because the government was somewhat late in responding, partially because just before the measures were enforced there was a major cultural event across much of the Netherlands below the rivers with visitors from everywhere, and partially because Italy is a pretty popular vacation spot for the Dutch, even in the winter as people try to flee the cold. And of course, we can't forget that testing in the Netherlands is not nearly comprehensive enough to give certainty about the numbers we do have.

[LynnInDenver]

How hidden cases, testing blunders and political missteps doomed NYC's COVID-19 response

Yeah, that's about the long and short of the issue... it came in from somewhere else, hence the first U.S. hot spots were caught flat footed. And why the lockdown had to be as hard and sudden as it was. Glad to see Washington state isn't doing that badly under the circumstances.

Anyone who claims Colorado was overreacting... I would have to ask, "do you want Denver to look like New York?" As I recall, a LOT of our deaths are similar to other places; nursing homes that the damned thing got into and raced through the resulting buffet.

BTW, I expect some conservative types that had already decided that metropolitan areas were hellholes to have this feed right into their confirmation bias, given the way it's basically been eating New York City alive.

Trump suffers political side-effects playing TV doctor during COVID-19 pandemic

Yeah, sarcasm and political speech don't mix. At all. It doesn't matter if he's using it as an excuse shield, or if it was actually sarcasm. (hint: the former is why it shouldn't be allowed, the latter is because too many people will take it seriously.)

EDIT: And from north of the border: Why 'be kind, be calm and be safe' is more than just a catchphrase in B.C.'s COVID-19 fight

Yeah, everywhere the challenge is going to be relaxing things without people deciding that things can progress right back to original business as usual. I think we're at least 6-8 months from that being able to even being a remote possibility. We're at least a month away from being able to actually see friends, and that's assuming meeting at a neutral location, nobody touches anything, and we're all at least 10-15 feet apart. (Adam Savage is personally mandating that anyone not in his household stays back 5+ yards, but then, he did participate in the "how far does that sneeze or cough go" mythbusting session.)

COVID-19 deaths per million people in North America and western Europe - in political entities with more than 5,000,000 population only - USA in red, Europe in orange, Canada in blue

BTW, the biggest issue is still not knowing how many people have been exposed to this thing, how many people came through it without being ill (so to speak), and worst of all not knowing how long any resulting immunity may last, if any is conferred at all.

[DHBirr]

Also, your postal service is required to prefund all its pensions until the 2080s, a unique requirement added by the Republicans somewhere around 2006 to 'prove' that it wouldn't work.

That just shows they Did Not Do The Research. Federal pensions in Canada have been funded that way for decades - why wouldn't it work in the USA?

Because as hazard said, though about NYC's healthcare system, it's "deliberately being sabotaged by the highest level of government."  The prefunding requirement for USPS was never intended to be functional, and the Republicans in Congress cheated to keep it from working.

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I'm a very forgiving person ... on Lord Vader's terms.  "Apology accepted, Captain."

[Dartz]

Whatr this doesn't account for though is the vast differences in how deaths are accounted for.

In some parts of Europe, they're only counting people who die, in a hospital, with a confirmed diagnosis. Here it's a wide net - people who die with a positive, regardless of where and with what other problems they had - or victims who never made it to a hospital, or who died with the telltale symptoms but without a test.

It's a wild west.

There's a great thread of it on twitter here

Some countries are overreporting - others are underreporting - and sorting out the melange leads to very different results.

It doesn't help that of the thousand fatalities we've had - the majority have been the elderly in nursing homes. It's been oddly asymptomatic here so it caught like fire in places ill-equipped to handle an infectious disease. The vast majority of fatalities are over 80 years old. Somehow about 40% of nursing homes were infested with it.

[hazard]

Well, given that from what you've said most of the elderly care staff rotates between facilities, all you really need is a handful of the staff getting infected and then them being in the same room as other care staffers who have a different schedule and go to locations the already infected members of the staff don't. Works even better when there's the occasional group briefing or contact by staff members outside of work, both of which are likely, especially early during an epidemic when nobody knows there's an epidemic going on.

COVID's nastiest trick isn't how easily it kills or cripples. It's how sneaky it is.

[SilverFang01]

Florida sees spike in positive coronavirus cases as death toll nears 1,000

Florida sees sudden spike in reported coronavirus cases as more than 1,000 are confirmed  Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242223821.html#storylink=cpy

Could this spike be due to the reopening of the beaches?

It seems it was due to undercounting, however the possibility exists that it will spike due to reopening.

[DHBirr]

Asked about concerns over Trump’s briefings, the White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, said, “Millions and millions of Americans tune in each day to hear directly from President Trump and appreciate his leadership, unprecedented coronavirus response, and confident outlook for America’s future.”

   — from a New York Times article about Republican fears that Trump is ruining the party

Ye gods, how can she talk with her head so far up the Dear Leader's rectum?

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Big Brother is watching you ... and damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[SilverFang01]

https://youtu.be/rZq-8Bq3mkU

[Matrix Dragon]

Asked about concerns over Trump’s briefings, the White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, said, “Millions and millions of Americans tune in each day to hear directly from President Trump and appreciate his leadership, unprecedented coronavirus response, and confident outlook for America’s future.”

   — from a New York Times article about Republican fears that Trump is ruining the party

Ye gods, how can she talk with her head so far up the Dear Leader's rectum?

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Big Brother is watching you ... and damn, you are so bloody BORING.

That's the scary thing. At this point, Trump's cultists believe that and dismiss any information disagreeing with that as Fake News. Or communist propaganda, that phrase is popping up a lot again.

[robkelk]

... Or communist propaganda, that phrase is popping up a lot again.

Any bets on whether they'll bring back the really famous 1950s anti-Communist slogan: "Better dead than red"?

[hazard]

Given how the cultists treat the virus that's making a mess of the world, that is very likely to become devastatingly true to a good chunk of them.

[DHBirr]

... Or communist propaganda, that phrase is popping up a lot again.

Any bets on whether they'll bring back the really famous 1950s anti-Communist slogan: "Better dead than red"?

That seems unlikely, given that the Republicans nowadays use red as their color, calling the states they control Red States, and the fanatics wear those silly red MAGAt hats.  Anyway, I've already revived that slogan for my personal use, and I vote Blue.

[classicdrogn]

Well voting Trump into office turned out to be electing Death to reign over the country, so it fits well enough. What's the last thing that killed as many Americans in as short a time? I'm not sure how to even try searching for the answer to that, but even if you only lay half the total at his feet I doubt it doesn't involve a war.

[robkelk]

What's the last thing that killed as many Americans in as short a time?

The 1918 H1N1 pandemic commonly called the "Spanish flu", if I recall correctly.

[classicdrogn]

I'd thought one of the world wars would have, but I can believe it goes back that far.

[hazard]

The thing with war is that, while it can certainly kill a lot of people, they tend to take a fair amount of time to kill the multitude of people they kill. WW2 killed a total of some 420 000 US citizens, but it did that over a period of nearly 4 years, and I would be very surprised if more than 400 US citizens died on average per day. Individual battles definitely killed thousands at a time, sometimes in hours or minutes when things like capital ships got sunk, but there were also long stretches of the war where the fighting hardly killed any US citizen.

And the USA has the advantage of only the smallest parts of their territory being assaulted and thus their general public not being at risk. Nations where the fighting occurred have seen much greater casualty numbers in absolute numbers and relative to their population simply because the civilians were at risk of a stray bullet or shell. Or deliberate action.

Infectious diseases, however, once they get in and isolation and quarantine become impractical if not impossible? Well, as COVID-19 is demonstrating, it can kill hundreds of people within hours. The real question becomes how much of the relative population was killed by the disease, and that's something that will be hard to estimate until we start collating numbers and compare them to the numbers of previous years.