All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XVI

[robkelk]

503s across Miraheze this morning...

Which means I have to wait to add this to "Who's on First?"

[Bob Schroeck]

It's about half an hour later and they seem to have stopped.

[robkelk]

So much for that idea... Even after uploading a new version of one of our undeletable files, I still can't delete it.

At least now it's obvious what we want to do with the file...

EDIT: I've undone that. It was causing problems with the auto-categorization.

[robkelk]

The Community Portal has two new sections.

[robkelk]

Policy question:

We do a DEFAULTSORT to disregard the definite article when it is at the start of an English-language title. (e.g. "Who, The")

Do we do the same for non-English titles? (e.g., "Bamba, La")

[Bob Schroeck]

Hm. Did a quick bit of research, because the question had recently occurred to me as well.

Basic Library Skills, 5th Edition says yes. So do the few other resources that explicitly mention the issue.

The Chicago Manual of Style (2017 ed.) specifically mentions an exception for when such particles are part of a name, then notes that it is a matter of systemic choice whether you respect the space between when alphabetizing.

The Filing Rules for the (US) Library of Congress agrees on the exception: "Initial articles in place names and personal names. Treat initial articles that form a part of place names and personal names as an integral part of the heading and regard them in filing. "

[robkelk]

Aargh.

I thought for sure that I'd be able to find more examples of this, but I'm stuck at four - nowhere near enough to launch.

Am I imagining how common this was back in the day?

[Bob Schroeck]

I'd suggest putting the Jargon File entry in as one of the examples instead of as a reference in the main text. That gets you one more...

[robkelk]

Doing that gives the page a "New Media" example, SelfColak added one to "Video Games" earlier today, and I just remembered a Literature example (the book's sitting on my desk, so add a quote!). so that's seven.

And I see you solved my dilemma about "do I really add the sign as a page image?" by simply copying most of the text as a page quote...

[SelfCloak]

DocColress joined the unofficial Discord server, as TheRisenChaos, and relayed to me some suggestions about the Magnificent Bastard page. In between that, he went in and brought up the unpleasant drama that happened about the Complete Monster pages. But here's what he suggested:

"Ace Attorney", "Avatarverse", "DC Animation", "Digimon", "Disney", "Dragon Ball", "Final Fantasy", "Fire Emblem", "Gundam", "Marvel Animation", "Marvel Cinematic Universe", "One Piece", "Pokemon", "Sonic the Hedgehog", and "Yu-Gi-Oh!" are subfolders that should not be visible and accessible on the main page. They were made to be shown and accessed through the subpages they're already on (Anime, Film, Live Action TV, Video Games, and Western Animation). I'd prefer it if those links were removed from the main page.

For that matter, I feel the big Moderator Note that appears at the top of the page is unnecessary. Complete Monster is no longer a trope on ATT, "attempt to turn Magnificent Bastard into a clone of Complete Monster" is vaguely defined, and from what I could gather there's not been anyone looking to turn the trope into a CM clone anyway.

Edit: I'll quote what Looney Toons wrote earlier on the Talk page:

The note is there because several someones tried this within the last couple months. Because they couldn't add anything to CM or its subpages, they started using this trope as their substitute. This is an explicit warning to anyone else who has the same clever idea that they will be stomped and their edits reverted.

[robkelk]

I'll give the same answer I've been giving other people - if he wants a change to how the wiki is organized, he's free to propose the change in the forums. Nobody gets to make changes unilaterally.

[Bob Schroeck]

Which is what I said in the reply I made later in the thread.

[TheNothingness]

I don't really understand why Complete Monster is such a, to put it lightly, "hot-topic" trope. 
In my two years on TV Tropes and my first year of All The Tropes, I could never see why people like it so much.

I'll say this: considering it has spawned an entire wiki, and there have been thousands of discussions on the TV Tropes forums, it can definitely be classified as a hot-topic trope. 

For those of you who contribute to CM tropes or the subtropes, I'm curious to hear your explanation.

[robkelk]

Doing that gives the page a "New Media" example, SelfColak added one to "Video Games" earlier today, and I just remembered a Literature example (the book's sitting on my desk, so add a quote!). so that's seven.

And I see you solved my dilemma about "do I really add the sign as a page image?" by simply copying most of the text as a page quote...

It's at either 9 or 11 examples, depending on how one counts what's listed under New Media. I'd like at least one more example on the page before proposing a trope launch...

[robkelk]

I'd say that being tagged as needing cleanup for over a half-decade is good for a free ticket back to the Trope Workshop... so off you go!

[robkelk]

503s across Miraheze for at least the last 20 minutes. I don't recall seeing yesterday any notices of scheduled downtime today. anybody know what's going on?

[Bob Schroeck]

According to the Miraheze Twitter, about half an hour ago as I post this:

We are aware of the current outage and it is being investigated. We suspect it is an OVH issue but we cannot say for sure for the time being.

[Bob Schroeck]

Latest word (1 hour ago as I type this):

There is an issue with one of the hosts running our database server. The service provider has been made aware of the issue, and our team is on it as well.

[robkelk]

No surprise that Miraheze is still down, then. If it's a host issue, then they might be back soon, though.

[robkelk]

A quarter-hour later and we're back. Slow (of course - everybody's checking the status) but back.

[Bob Schroeck]

Rob, you'll be glad to hear that after months of work, the end of the "Work pages without tropelist template" task is in sigjht -- literally. There are less than 500 pages so afflicted left, and the very last on on the list is visible and moving closer all the time.

[robkelk]

I noticed - I had a few minutes and was working on one of the other lists on the page (the "Heartwarming pages without {{heartwarming}}" list).

We're getting to the point where I can add another cleanup list to that page...

[Bob Schroeck]

Gah. I think I somehow deleted the forum thread "PROPOSAL: Temporarily block all anonymous editing" when trying to delete one of vandal messages in it. But the thread deletion doesn't appear in recent changes, and I don't see any management tools I can use to undo the deletion. Is there some way to revert this change? Can someone please do it, or tell me how?

[SelfCloak]

It doesn't seem like it can be reverted. I found an incomplete archive of the thread: http://web.archive.org/web/2020013018282...us_editing

[robkelk]

I've updated the sitenotice accordingly.