COVID-19 & US healthcare system: Flattening the Third

[Labster]

Old thread

I guess there are a lot of reports of Republican political staffers being forced to not wear masks at work so they could set an example to show the country how to reopen properly.  Probably have a good article to link to tomorrow, but reporters are getting lots of emails from Congressional staffers.

I do understand it a little bit -- why would a Republican want their staff to display their allegiance to Democrats by wearing masks?  And of course, it's just following the example of the president who is a huge narcissist, so that makes sense too.  The part that doesn't make sense is why the party hasn't cut ties to Trump to save their own skins.

[Star Ranger4]

Still say that its more of a cluster flock than just a cluster Labster.

[robkelk]

I hear that over 150,000 people in the USA have died from the coronavirus as of yesterday.

Since the USA has approximately 9 times as many people as Canada, one would expect that Canada would have one-ninth the fatalities the USA has, all other things being equal.

150,000 / 9 = 16,666.66...

I hear that Canada has had 8,912 coronavirus-related deaths as of yesterday.

Roughly half as many deaths per capita than the USA.

I know it sounds like a broken record... but, IIRC, the gap is widening.

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, this is why we're assuming, in this household, that we're not doing outside events at all, period, in 2020, and it's quite possible for at least the first half of 2021. How much longer will depend exactly on how well immunizations go once a vaccine is available - I'm predicting NOT WELL AT ALL given how not well the rest of this is going. My state's actually doing okay, the problem is the surrounding hot spots and that this disease seems to be absolutely perfect in terms of taking advantage of the way humans work to just keep spreading.

[Bob Schroeck]

The part that doesn't make sense is why the party hasn't cut ties to Trump to save their own skins.

Well, that's simple.  The post-2012 election self-examination/post-mortem the Republican Party did of itself (and promptly ignored) raised the warning that the party was starting to become the party of old white people, and was increasingly out of touch with the United States as it exists today, to the point that its own youth generally regarded the some of the party positions as irrational and antique.  There was a core of the party that heard this and didn't think "we need to get with the times", but "we're losing the culture war and need a nuke to take out all those inconvenient people on the other side".

And they got that with Trump.  They're supporting him because as long as they have a narcissistic lunatic who doesn't give a fuck about laws and the Constitution in office, they can get what they want just by flattering him and playing up to his dreams of being the next Vladimir Putin or Kim Il Jong. 

There's also another angle.  I once quoted here ... ah, I forget who, but they said that the core of the difference between the left and the right was their attitudes toward change.  The radical wants tomorrow's change today, the liberal/progressive wants selected bits of tomorrow's change now, the moderate takes change as it comes, the conservative wants to manage change so it happens at a comfortable pace, and the reactionary wants all change outlawed and undone so nothing is different from what it was in his father's day.  The core of the modern American Republican party wants to turn back all change and does not react well to change it can't undo.  And a pandemic is such a profound change from the status quo that they profit from and need to preserve at all costs that the only way they can cope with it is to deny it entirely, even as the bodies stack up.  And Trump's ability to lie himself into his vision of a perfect world helps them in that, because there's a strong current of authority-worship in modern Republicanism, and if the man at the top says it then it's easier to delude yourself that it's true.

Pity self-delusion doesn't make you immune to disease.  Even more pity how many of the people around them they're likely to take down with them.

[SilverFang01]

Waking up to this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53597975

Guess it’s another step to their dream of permanent conservative government.

[SilverFang01]

When you harden yourself against reality, reality takes a hammer to your face:
https://twitter.com/davidbegnaud/status/...86402?s=21

[DHBirr]

Louis Gohmert says he'll treat his coronavirus with hydroxychloroquine, "despite warnings from the Food and Drug Administration and medical experts that it isn’t effective as a coronavirus treatment and could carry significant health risks."  

Experts, sneer the Trumpites.  Whadda they know?

Perhaps he should drink some bleach, too.  And then shove a UV light up his backside.

-----
I'm a very forgiving person ... on Lord Vader's terms.  "Apology accepted, Captain."

[Bob Schroeck]

Experts, sneer the Trumpites.  Whadda they know?

You can always say what I recently have at such times:  "A mechanic is an expert in cars, and who needs them?  I know nothing about cars but I'll be happy to fix yours."

[robkelk]

Speaking of experts... Stella Immanuel - the doctor behind unproven coronavirus cure claim

BBC is being very careful not to descend into Ad Hominem or Appeal to Ridicule in that article... but in my humble opinion they're very close to the line.

After Facebook took down the America's Frontline Doctors' video on Tuesday, she declared that Jesus Christ would destroy the social media giant's servers if her videos were not restored to the platform.

Facebook has not reported an interruption on its services.

[LynnInDenver]

A group of Colorado taverns (read: bars) is trying to fight the restrictions placed on them in response to COVID-19. The judge has refused to issue a temporary restraining order while this is being heard, because the potential bad of putting a stay in place far outweighs the verified bad of some of the bars and taverns having to close permanently: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/07/30/l...ter-10-pm/

Around 9% of our COVID outbreaks are traced back to bars and restaurants right now. That's enough evidence for me. To a certain extent, it's the awful choice between "forced out of business through attempted health protection measures enacted by the government" and "forced out of business when it becomes clear they can't literally do enough to help quell this thing and the hospitals are overwhelmed and the state gets shut down AGAIN". But I'll also add, that I'm becoming less likely to want to patronize bars and taverns as a result of their digging in their heels, even though I can see the whole "I'm gonna LOSE my business at this rate". Plus, if the state is forced to shut it all down to essential business only again, there will be a LOT more economic damage than just the local watering hole not surviving.

Note: We're already acknowledging that many of the businesses that we've patronized over the years are probably not going to survive, particularly in the restaurant sector. We're doing what we can, but we've literally only been ordering delivery and takeout from non-chain entities. And like a lot of people, we're moving more and more towards "just cook things at home" anyway.

[hazard]

Frankly, even if they do lose their businesses, if all they do is keep enough money in the bank to pay off the debts after shutting their doors they can probably get a loan from the government or a bank for another go. Not optimal by any measure, but rebooting the hospitality industry would be a lot easier under those circumstances.

And better for the economy, compared to having to open up and forcefully close down multiple times due to flareups of the disease.

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, under the circumstances, I'm not having a lot of sympathy since their arguments basically come down to "my business is more important than doing everything we can to keep the population safe until a vaccine comes around".

We've spent four months with my husband out of work and going nuts, stuck up in the house with our usual outlets unavailable completely, we've managed to see maybe 7-8 friends over at the house over that span of time (towards to changeover from Safer At Home to Protect Your Neighbor), there's at least one project that I'm going to try to finish that's frankly of very limited utility until we can have gatherings of any size again, and they're basically fronting an argument that our sacrifices here have to amount to nothing because they could lose their own shirts through what is, frankly, no fault of their own but still in the "shit happens" category just like all the crap we've had to sacrifice here. I'm not filled with a lot of sympathy for their position with the arguments they're fronting. The only thing that holds water is that the local barcade chain The1Up has put up some noise about the casinos being able to reopen with machines and they're not allowed to open with their own machines turned on, but they've also made the decision to not open as just another tavern, which at least earns some of my respect.


And I do agree that the economic damage of losing some bars is far preferable to the economic damage of "oops, we close it all again" on repeat. Which is a very REAL possibility right now.

TL;DR: Given the whining over the required sacrifices, with one exception I don't think the bars and taverns deserve my business.

[robkelk]

I'll just leave this here

[LynnInDenver]

And in fresh news, we were trying to order something on eBay that would get shipped from Japan... our order was cancelled because Japan Post will no longer ship to the U.S. for the foreseeable future. I'm expecting because COVID-19 and this country's constant efforts to try to ignore the problem that it really is.

I'm thinking it's likely going to be a decade before international travel without restrictions is even possible, much less actually happening.

[Norgarth]

Had a talk with a woman at work and she pointed out that the cognitive test Trump took is used for stroke victims, and that things like the using 2 hands to lift a water glass, and the shuffling down the ramp would also fit as after-affects of a stroke. She also pointed out Trump's sudden trip to Walter Reed hospital last November.

Thought on this theory?

[Black Aeronaut]

At this point, I wouldn't put anything past Trump and his staff, up to and including shooting someone in the street in the middle of rush hour. Because apparently the Republican Party feels that there is absolutely no wrong or harm that Trump can do.

[hazard]

More like they are desperately looking for a way to distract from the damage Trump's policies are doing.

And yes, I'm including the utter mismanagement of the pandemic as part of the policies.

[robkelk]

More like they are desperately looking for a way to distract from the damage Trump's policies are doing.
...

Actually, please do keep the H-1B visa program suspended. The Canadian high-tech sector thanks you for the windfall of highly-skilled workers that the Nicknamer-in-Chief is keeping out of your country.

[Black Aeronaut]

Ironically, I think that one might actually be working in our favor.

My dad recently landed a job with Goddard.

Yes.  That Goddard.

As in Goddard Space Flight Center.

As a Lead PCB Designer.  As in he will be heading an entire department.  AT FUCKING GODDARD.

The biggest thing that has been keeping my dad out of jobs like this is the pay his degree of seniority and experience demands.  Not many people want to shell out that kind of moolah.  And the hell of it is that this isn't just his employment agency blowing smoke - he really is worth the money.  Just off the top of my head, he's worked for Raytheon, Motorola, AMD, Intel, Samsung, FUCKING JOHNS HOPKINS ADVANCE PHYSICS LABORATORY...  That last one was a serious feather in his hat because a good amount of the work he's done there is in space probes (most notably the Juno probe) that are at work now.  And on top of all that he has various security clearances with the US Government.

By all means, let's keep it this way.  There's no shortage of technical skill here in the USA - just a shortage of corporate crackheads willing to pay the money they're worth.

You know what we really need, though?

Masons.
Pipe Fitters.
Steel Workers.
Welders.
Plumbers.
Electricians.

You know, vocational jobs that are relatively easy to learn - they just demand a good deal of experience, hence why the apprenticeship system is alive and well in these fields, even in these modern days.  And a lot of these can be filled by immigrants from poor countries (like Mexico or Guatemala) who are eager to learn a trade, even if it's a trade that is labor intensive.  They'll take that over digging ditches or doing farm labor for pennies on the hour instead.

[hazard]

Or, you know, American labourers willing to learn an honest job but don't learn those vocational jobs because they are lacking in pay and respectability.

[Dartz]

Vocational jobs are not easy to learn. Especially when you consider the amount of bad electricians and plumbers I see - most have their papers and most are fucking useless. I've seen some genuinely hair-rasising shit. Houses with the main earth disconnected (electrocution hazard), pressurised solid-fuel boilers with no gravity circuit (Bomb) and other such shit.

A good tradesperson is rare. They'll cost more per hour, but save you money in getting it done first time, or in less time. Which is why people, being morons, hire the cheapest eejit they can.

In the end though, I can draft up a design, but I'll be fucked if I can ever impliment it.

[Jinx999]

A good tradesperson is rare. They'll cost more per hour, but save you money in getting it done first time, or in less time. Which is why people, being morons, hire the cheapest eejit they can.

The problem is, unless you know quite a bit about the subject, identifing a good tradesperson or telling one apart from a merely expensive tradesperson is not easy.

[Dartz]

A good tradesperson is rare. They'll cost more per hour, but save you money in getting it done first time, or in less time. Which is why people, being morons, hire the cheapest eejit they can.

The problem is, unless you know quite a bit about the subject, identifing a good tradesperson or telling one apart from a merely expensive tradesperson is not easy.

Almost every good tradesperson I've known has a clean, organised van - with no copies of The Sun, or paper wrapper stuffed onto the dashboard.

I've never known a bad tradesperson with an organised van.

[LynnInDenver]

Almost every good tradesperson I've known has a clean, organised van - with no copies of The Sun, or paper wrapper stuffed onto the dashboard.

I've never known a bad tradesperson with an organised van.

That's the trick. The good ones recognize the importance of being able to find your tools quickly, putting them away at the end of the job to enable the former, and otherwise keeping their toolbox (read: van) clean to facilitate both, and keep the tools from just bouncing around and breaking, which can happen even to good tools if they're not cared for.