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**robkelk** · 12-29-2020, 01:49 PM

(12-28-2020, 10:02 PM)GethN7 Wrote:
(12-28-2020, 06:30 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: ...Hm. I've been on, making edits, for the last couple-three hours, and I realize that the bogus account registration and bogus page creation rates are both way down. Hopefully this is not just a momentary lull and is actually evidence that StopForumSpam is working.

I don't doubt it's cut down quite a bit of it. Lots of spammers either set up multiple computers with bots as a zombie botnet that just spams constantly, and zombie botnets tend to be known forum spammers and easily killed off, or they try to hire black hats with their own botnets to contract out their spam, and those idiots also get caught in the dragnet too.

Either way, I'd give it few days to be sure.

We had another 60 spam posts yesterday (14:00 UTC - 14:00 UTC) - two-thirds of the daily average since we started using Moderation. Maybe it's working... but I want a few days to be sure, too.

**robkelk** · 12-29-2020, 03:23 PM

Hmmmmm...

As near as I can tell, this page is a manually-maintained copy of this autogenerated page.

Is there any reason to keep both?

GethN7 · 12-29-2020, 03:35 PM

(12-29-2020, 03:23 PM)robkelk Wrote: Hmmmmm...

As near as I can tell, this page is a manually-maintained copy of this autogenerated page.

Is there any reason to keep both?

The Index Index allows us to keep things collated manually, the latter page simply keeps track of all categories, but lacks the drill-down features or manual editing of the other. The former makes doing jobs for cleanup easier because we can narrow them down via the subcategorization, while the latter just lists all categories no matter what without the built-in drill-down of the manual page.

The latter is also generated by the software without any human input, which means it would exist without any categories at all. A truly accurate count of all categories that are relevant to our site mission can only be reliably checked through the manual page, the autogenerated one includes categories that are for maintenance, or generated by certain extensions that may not exist once they are removed.

**robkelk** · 12-29-2020, 07:30 PM

(12-29-2020, 03:35 PM)GethN7 Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 03:23 PM)robkelk Wrote: Hmmmmm...

As near as I can tell, this page is a manually-maintained copy of this autogenerated page.

Is there any reason to keep both?

The Index Index allows us to keep things collated manually, the latter page simply keeps track of all categories, but lacks the drill-down features or manual editing of the other. The former makes doing jobs for cleanup easier because we can narrow them down via the subcategorization, while the latter just lists all categories no matter what without the built-in drill-down of the manual page.

The latter is also generated by the software without any human input, which means it would exist without any categories at all. A truly accurate count of all categories that are relevant to our site mission can only be reliably checked through the manual page, the autogenerated one includes categories that are for maintenance, or generated by certain extensions that may not exist once they are removed.

In that case, we had better start using subcategories.

GethN7 · 12-29-2020, 08:04 PM

(12-29-2020, 07:30 PM)robkelk Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 03:35 PM)GethN7 Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 03:23 PM)robkelk Wrote: Hmmmmm...

As near as I can tell, this page is a manually-maintained copy of this autogenerated page.

Is there any reason to keep both?

The Index Index allows us to keep things collated manually, the latter page simply keeps track of all categories, but lacks the drill-down features or manual editing of the other. The former makes doing jobs for cleanup easier because we can narrow them down via the subcategorization, while the latter just lists all categories no matter what without the built-in drill-down of the manual page.

The latter is also generated by the software without any human input, which means it would exist without any categories at all. A truly accurate count of all categories that are relevant to our site mission can only be reliably checked through the manual page, the autogenerated one includes categories that are for maintenance, or generated by certain extensions that may not exist once they are removed.

In that case, we had better start using subcategories.

Already do. See the arrows next to categories in the Index Index? If it's blue, it means that category has subcategories. In fact, our trope/work pages do this by default. Unlike TV Tropes, MediaWiki was designed for allowing fine grained drill-down to narrow things to a specific range of items based on category tags since day one.

**robkelk** · (This post was last modified: 12-29-2020, 09:36 PM by robkelk.)

(12-29-2020, 08:04 PM)GethN7 Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 07:30 PM)robkelk Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 03:35 PM)GethN7 Wrote:
(12-29-2020, 03:23 PM)robkelk Wrote: Hmmmmm...

As near as I can tell, this page is a manually-maintained copy of this autogenerated page.

Is there any reason to keep both?

The Index Index allows us to keep things collated manually, the latter page simply keeps track of all categories, but lacks the drill-down features or manual editing of the other. The former makes doing jobs for cleanup easier because we can narrow them down via the subcategorization, while the latter just lists all categories no matter what without the built-in drill-down of the manual page.

The latter is also generated by the software without any human input, which means it would exist without any categories at all. A truly accurate count of all categories that are relevant to our site mission can only be reliably checked through the manual page, the autogenerated one includes categories that are for maintenance, or generated by certain extensions that may not exist once they are removed.

In that case, we had better start using subcategories.

Already do. See the arrows next to categories in the Index Index? If it's blue, it means that category has subcategories. In fact, our trope/work pages do this by default. Unlike TV Tropes, MediaWiki was designed for allowing fine grained drill-down to narrow things to a specific range of items based on category tags since day one.

***Bob Schroeck*** · 12-29-2020, 10:57 PM

Sooooo.... on another topic, everyone's favorite public masturbator XanderMartin98 just dropped me an incredibly arrogant email in which he basically claimed, Trump-like, that only he and he alone can save All The Tropes from some unspecified and no doubt entirely imaginary DOOOOOOOOM by solving the rampant grammar and usage errors we inherited from TV Tropes, and that it desperately needs the trope of his we nuked for its basic stupidity.

Naturally I shitcanned it, but geeze, just what I needed to come upon right before going to bed.

**Labster** · 12-30-2020, 01:38 AM

(12-29-2020, 03:11 AM)Norgarth Wrote:

Page image for Author Appeal, anyone?

Also I feel like maybe Video Phone needs a bit of a rewrite for 2020.

Good luck on the categories, Rob. I've spent many an hour trying to organize them. Index Index is not the place to start -- Top Index is the root node. As far as I can tell, Index Index is the container category for all of the works' and tropes' individual categories. It's not doing much except keeping those categories off of Special:UncategorizedCategories. And those categories are not doing much except keeping work subpages off of Special:UncategorizedPages.

***Bob Schroeck*** · 12-30-2020, 08:53 AM

Quote:Page image for Author Appeal, anyone?

Also I feel like maybe Video Phone needs a bit of a rewrite for 2020.

Seconded for both.

**robkelk** · 12-30-2020, 10:01 AM

(12-30-2020, 08:53 AM)Bob Schroeck Wrote:
Quote:Page image for Author Appeal, anyone?

Also I feel like maybe Video Phone needs a bit of a rewrite for 2020.
Seconded for both.

And thirded. But I just suggested anotehr big project, so I don't have time to write anything right now.

**robkelk** · 12-30-2020, 10:11 AM

(12-29-2020, 01:49 PM)robkelk Wrote:
(12-28-2020, 10:02 PM)GethN7 Wrote:
(12-28-2020, 06:30 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: ...Hm. I've been on, making edits, for the last couple-three hours, and I realize that the bogus account registration and bogus page creation rates are both way down. Hopefully this is not just a momentary lull and is actually evidence that StopForumSpam is working.

I don't doubt it's cut down quite a bit of it. Lots of spammers either set up multiple computers with bots as a zombie botnet that just spams constantly, and zombie botnets tend to be known forum spammers and easily killed off, or they try to hire black hats with their own botnets to contract out their spam, and those idiots also get caught in the dragnet too.

Either way, I'd give it few days to be sure.

We had another 60 spam posts yesterday (14:00 UTC - 14:00 UTC) - two-thirds of the daily average since we started using Moderation. Maybe it's working... but I want a few days to be sure, too.

41 spam posts rejected yesterday (14:00 UTC - 14:00 UTC). We're getting close to as many spam posts in one day as we usually get in one month...

GethN7 · 12-30-2020, 12:07 PM

(12-30-2020, 10:01 AM)robkelk Wrote:
(12-30-2020, 08:53 AM)Bob Schroeck Wrote:
Quote:Page image for Author Appeal, anyone?

Also I feel like maybe Video Phone needs a bit of a rewrite for 2020.
Seconded for both.

And thirded. But I just suggested anotehr big project, so I don't have time to write anything right now.

Fourthed.

**robkelk** · 12-30-2020, 12:25 PM

(12-30-2020, 12:07 PM)GethN7 Wrote:
(12-30-2020, 10:01 AM)robkelk Wrote:
(12-30-2020, 08:53 AM)Bob Schroeck Wrote:
Quote:Page image for Author Appeal, anyone?

Also I feel like maybe Video Phone needs a bit of a rewrite for 2020.
Seconded for both.

And thirded. But I just suggested anotehr big project, so I don't have time to write anything right now.

Fourthed.

Image is up.

Somebody else gets to do the re-write.

***Bob Schroeck*** · 12-30-2020, 06:24 PM

I've done an initial pass on Author Appeal, but I've left the "unsorted" examples for someone else (or later, or both).

**Labster** · 12-31-2020, 04:07 AM

Just a reminder that the Miraheze fundraiser is going on now. So if you can spare a few bob, or maybe some quid, they'd appreciate it.

**robkelk** · 12-31-2020, 12:17 PM

Already done. Since I'm involved with three wikis, two of which are routinely on the top 40 hosted at Miraheze, I chipped in substantially more than the suggested amount.

***Bob Schroeck*** · 12-31-2020, 02:46 PM

I'm going to have to wait until my next payday, but I'll certainly contribute something.

**robkelk** · (This post was last modified: 01-01-2021, 12:13 PM by robkelk.)

Revisiting a topic that we promised ourselves four months ago that we'd revisit.

Any suggestions for what page or pages to put these two quotes on?

{{quote|"MOM. There’s nothing redeeming to be said about that show. Cuties sexualizes young girls and it’s completely inappropriate."

My teen daughters are spectacularly opinionated sometimes. I love that they have a strong sense of social justice and even stronger opinions that they are more than willing to share, but I have to challenge that when it seems like they are reacting to something they’ve heard instead of forming their own conclusions.

"But have you seen it?" I asked her this week.

"No, but I’ve seen the trailers and the debate online. Do NOT write about it. It’s not worth it. The comments will be awful."

"But what if that’s exactly the problem? That people are forming judgements about it before actually seeing Cuties or understanding the message behind it?"
|Paula Schuck|"[https://www.cbc.ca/parents/learning/view...rds-for-it I Watched Netflix Movie Cuties With My Teen Daughter And She Has Four Words For It]", September 28, 2020}}

{{quote|If art is a reflection of society, and I believe this movie is, then what’s inappropriate is us, the audience, accepting that popular culture, social media, reality shows and music all get a pass on the images and videos they share.
|Paula Schuck|"[https://www.cbc.ca/parents/learning/view...rds-for-it I Watched Netflix Movie Cuties With My Teen Daughter And She Has Four Words For It]", September 28, 2020}}

I'd put the second quote onto the work page for the movie... if we had one.

**robkelk** · 01-02-2021, 11:53 AM

Thinking of putting this image on Tropes Are Not Legos... unless there's a better page to put it on.

**robkelk** · 01-02-2021, 01:56 PM

We have a new user... could somebody who's familiar with TVT check the pages that he or she has created, please? (I've already asked that this troper use the boilerplates for new pages.)

***Bob Schroeck*** · 01-02-2021, 04:29 PM

(01-02-2021, 11:53 AM)robkelk Wrote: Thinking of putting this image on Tropes Are Not Legos... unless there's a better page to put it on.

Works for me. I think it illustrates the idea perfectly -- same tropes, different results.

***Bob Schroeck*** · 01-02-2021, 04:32 PM

(01-02-2021, 01:56 PM)robkelk Wrote: We have a new user... could somebody who's familiar with TVT check the pages that he or she has created, please? (I've already asked that this troper use the boilerplates for new pages.)

I'll do that in just a moment. In the meantime, I went to patrol their contributions, and discovered I'm no longer given the option. Which is weird, because I checked my group memberships and nothing has changed that I can see. Of course, I'm kind of clueless about the wiki management stuff, so maybe I'm not looking at the right place or settings... so could someone who actually knows what they're doing instead of going about thing by rote like me please check? Thanks.

***Bob Schroeck*** · 01-02-2021, 04:34 PM

And yeah, both pages were ripped word-for-word from TV Tropes.

**robkelk** · (This post was last modified: 01-02-2021, 05:57 PM by robkelk.)

(01-02-2021, 04:32 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote:
(01-02-2021, 01:56 PM)robkelk Wrote: We have a new user... could somebody who's familiar with TVT check the pages that he or she has created, please? (I've already asked that this troper use the boilerplates for new pages.)

I'll do that in just a moment. In the meantime, I went to patrol their contributions, and discovered I'm no longer given the option. Which is weird, because I checked my group memberships and nothing has changed that I can see. Of course, I'm kind of clueless about the wiki management stuff, so maybe I'm not looking at the right place or settings... so could someone who actually knows what they're doing instead of going about thing by rote like me please check? Thanks.

Odd... I didn't mark them as patrolled when I approved them in Moderation.

(01-02-2021, 04:34 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: And yeah, both pages were ripped word-for-word from TV Tropes.

Ah, well.

**robkelk** · 01-02-2021, 06:06 PM

(01-02-2021, 04:29 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote:
(01-02-2021, 11:53 AM)robkelk Wrote: Thinking of putting this image on Tropes Are Not Legos... unless there's a better page to put it on.

Works for me. I think it illustrates the idea perfectly -- same tropes, different results.

It's up - with a caption inspired by one of the comments on the strip: 'What do you mean, "Luke or Harry"? This list describes Frodo!'

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