All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XVIII

[Bob Schroeck]

In the meantime, I went to patrol their contributions, and discovered I'm no longer given the option.  Which is weird, because I checked my group memberships and nothing has changed that I can see.  Of course, I'm kind of clueless about the wiki management stuff, so maybe I'm not looking at the right place or settings... so could someone who actually knows what they're doing instead of going about thing by rote like me please check?  Thanks.

Odd... I didn't mark them as patrolled when I approved them in Moderation.

Okay, more (and more accurate) information...  I apparently cannot mark a page as patrolled if I approved it in Moderation.  It's flagged as needing patrolling, but when I look at it, the usual links for marking it patrolled are not there.  If a page appears in recent changes needing patrolling but I didn't approve it, the patrol links are there.

[robkelk]

Exactly where if anywhere do we say "don't link to TVTropes"? Is this a rule or a preference?

Because this page does.

[Bob Schroeck]

"External Links" on All The Tropes:Style Guide:

Finally, don't link to TV Tropes for any reason. ... If we absolutely need to link to TV Tropes (such as on the work page for that site), a mod has already done so.

and

"What Not To Do" on All The Tropes:Works Page Guidelines, the last point:

* Do not link to TV Tropes in order to include a trope we don't have documented here. If the trope is so important that you just must have it in the work page, propose it in the Trope Workshop and then add it to the page when it passes muster.

EDIT: Looking at that page, we can certainly link to a work hosted on TVT; we do it for a few roleplays as I recall and the Style Guide note also approves of linking to works. We might want to change the text to read something like, "to view Echo Chamber, go here", though, and maybe use the full URL instead of an Interwiki link.

EDIT 2: After clicking that link, the page linked to is useless. It is, as the article says, an embed of the "latest" episode. Which, given that the series went on hiatus eight years ago, is not all that latest. Better to replace it with a link to the ShareTV page, where the entire series is hosted.

EDIT 3: Which I've just done.

[robkelk]

Thanks.

[Bob Schroeck]

No problem.

[GethN7]

If a work is entirely hosted on TV Tropes as the only source, then we would be compelled to link to it without any evasion. If it originated there but has an offsite link that is regularly updated, we should default to the latter. If they have a mix of material on and off their site (like their Pantheon round-robin, parts of which are hosted offsite), then one link to the TVT site content, and a link to the offsite material on the same page, stating which is which.

That's my overall take on how this should likely work.

[Bob Schroeck]

Works for me.

[Bob Schroeck]

On a different topic entirely...

Do we have a trope for a concept which might be called "And Stay Out!" (under which name nothing exists on the wiki). As you might guess, this is for slamming the door after someone's dramatic exit, in an attempt to make it look like a voluntary departure was in fact an involuntary one.

[Bob Schroeck]

So, has anyone else come across "Trope Talks" by Overly Sarcastic Productions over on YouTube? I just stumbled over their video on Dragons, which was surprisingly awesome -- and spent a fair amount of time on the story roles dragons play and why. We may want to consider embedding some of these on the relevant pages, or maybe even striking some kind of cross-promotion deal with them since they don't seem to be explicitly tied to TV Tropes in any way.

As a sample, the Dragon video I just watched:


EDIT: And if someone says, "hell yeah, I mentioned them back in 2017 and no one paid attention", well... sorry.

[robkelk]

Wow - there were a lot of Gen1 Transformers.

enough that I went and filled the Recent Changes list by putting license information on their images, even if you set the list to show the last 500 entries.

[GethN7]

I saw this on TV Tropes and facepalmed so hard I almost knocked teeth out.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?pa...2&type=att

Essentially, they nuked a page on the StoneToss webcomics for being alt-right. As someone who is not a gigantic fan of them, they do come off somewhat right leaning, granted, but some poke fun at both sides (they had a few roasting Donald Trump pretty hard) on occasion and seem to have two qualities:

1. A very easy to pull off art style that comes off as low effort.
2. Using the same "make an offensive point and ask by implications of the final panel like any other troll "why so mad?"

That all said, since we don;t have a page on those comics, I was considering making one because I find their reasoning inane. Mein Kampf has a page on our wiki, and we can discuss it maturely. The Turner Diaries is explicit neo-Nazi fanfic, but we can discuss it dispassionately. We even discuss Donald Trump and have generally managed to keep discussion of that generally civil, so I see no reason we can't discuss a webcomic that is often edgy and offensive with frequent right leaning humor and still remain dispassionate and objective while still remaining honest about its content if we can cover the other topics I mentioned.

In fact, I remember one StoneToss comic even covered the very topic of banning something you find offensive and essentially mocked the concept by having something one side banned just as angry by banning something THEY liked, and the comic, per its trademark, basically was all "but we banned something offensive like you did, why so mad?"

That in mind, I respectfully bring this up because I wanted to create a page on said comics if no one else will and to say I hope and pray we don't go down that route ourselves. Heinrich Heine (whose own works were burned by the Nazis) famously uttered this prophecy on what happens when people do:

"Those who start by burning books....will eventually burn people."

[robkelk]

We will not censor for politics, prudery or prejudice. Period.

I won't stop you from doing this.

[Bob Schroeck]

As long as it's neutral in presentation I'm okay with it.

[Bob Schroeck]

We've got a trope for appearing to disapprove of something while still encouraging someone to do it, right? I could swear we do, but I can't remember what it's called.

[robkelk]

The closest I can find in a quick search is Immediate Self Contradiction - and that's just barely applicable, if I'm reading your intention correctly.

---

Status report: We're below 30,000 files that don't have license information identified.

[Bob Schroeck]

Today's events remind me that we have at least one page -- Category:Truth and Lies -- and probably more pointing a redlink at "The Big Lie", which is a page we very much need these days.

[Bob Schroeck]

The closest I can find in a quick search is Immediate Self Contradiction - and that's just barely applicable, if I'm reading your intention correctly.

Yeah, it's not quite it.  I'm remembering a movie scene -- but I can't put names or faces to it -- where a guy appears to be discouraging applause when someone with him is looking, and gives an encouraging "more, more" gesture when they aren't.

[robkelk]

Well, I got this question completely wrong... anybody else want to give it a go?

[GethN7]

Well, I got this question completely wrong... anybody else want to give it a go?

Gave it a shot for ya.

[robkelk]

Thanks.

[robkelk]

I just noticed that we only have three examples on "It Was His Sled".

Is "everybody already knows the spoiler" Too Rare to Trope?

[robkelk]

Hmmmmm... Before I make this proposal on the wiki forum, I want to get the opinions of the writers here.

Would it make sense to move "Hero's Journey" to "So You Want To/Write a Hero's Journey" (listing it under "Genres" on "So You Want To/See the Index")?

It makes sense to me to list it there, instead of as a plain-vanilla Useful Note.

[robkelk]

Just made a few changes to All The Tropes:How We Do Bans Around Here:

1) Yes, you can mention politics without worrying about being banned. However, mentioning politics doesn't give you a "free pass" to ignore the rest of the rules.
2) The lists of what is or isn't bannable activity are not meant to cover 100% of all possible cases.
3) "Repeating an action that previously warranted a tempban" is now also on the list of temp-bannable without warning - we don't need to jump straight to permaban for a repeated offense.

[robkelk]

Looks like the spam flood is finally abating. It also looks like spammers are finally being auto-rejected reliably.

Let's leave Moderation turned on, to catch the spam.

[Bob Schroeck]

You won't get any argument from me.

EDIT: BTW, caught in Moderation since last night were a number of good edits by a user going by "MJL". We'll want to keep an eye on him/her/it/them for the next few days and maybe promote them. Their changes were good enough I'm willing to give a pass on one in the "All The Tropes:" namespace -- a redirect sending "Moderation" to All The Tropes:New User Introduction#Important Note.

(Speaking of which, weren't we going to make the ATT namespace uneditable by non-admins?)