All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII

[Bob Schroeck]

I apparently do not have rights to change this.

You should have the rights to change this. All Bureaucrats are supposed to be able to update that page.

It's completely greyed out and unresponsive when I visit.

[robkelk]

I've explicitly given you "forum administrator" and "interface administrator" rights (which should be implicitly included in "Administrator"). Does that make a difference?

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, that did it. I was able to add the description from above ("People, Projects, and Patterns in Entertainment"). I have not yet changed the categorization, pending a clear consensus.

[Bob Schroeck]

And in other news, about five minutes ago my spontaneous logout problem began again. Interestingly, I was on Recent Changes and watched it suddenly reload, going from my customized layout to the default visitor's layout without any prompting from me.

[LulzKiller]

Updated Norm Macdonald's page in light of his passing.

All Franchise pages should now have the franchisetropes template. Only false positive was the scream movie, and I don't know why it came up in the category when it didn't have that category.

[GethN7]

On how we categorize ATT, I'm willing to defer to the rest of staff on their choices.

That said, since Rob brought up the three most likely candidates based on our options, here is my opinion if anyone is interested:

Entertainment - Good catchall for what we cover, but doesn't really sum up the core concept of our wiki

Fandom - We do cover several of them, but again, not my preferred choice speaking for just me.

Literature/Writing - At our core, we are a wiki about patterns in writing, and the media we cover all draw from that pool we call tropes. My personal preference.

[LulzKiller]

Literature might give off the impression that we don't care about audiovisual works that aren't just textual.

Entertainment seems the least worst, but I do see the humour in using "Fandom" after Fandom basically got rid of ATT.

[Bob Schroeck]

And in other news, about five minutes ago my spontaneous logout problem began again.  Interestingly, I was on Recent Changes and watched it suddenly reload, going from my customized layout to the default visitor's layout without any prompting from me.

Whatever the hell is going on, it's happening on multiple computers and (so far) two different browsers.  Sometimes I get logged out and when I try to log back in it tells me I'm still centrally logged in and all I need to do is reload the page... which completely logs me out.

EDIT: Well. Chrome and Seamonkey are subject to the spontaneous logout. Interestingly, Edge and IE are not, or at least have not started doing it yet.

I have several other browsers on my work machine, among them Firefox, Brave and Opera. I'm going to have to give them a try, too, and see what happens.

[Black Aeronaut]

Regarding categorization.... I feel it's a toss-up between Entertainment and Fandom, leaning a bit closer to Fandom.

Regarding Bob's issues... I use Firefox all the time and I hardly notice any problems. So I can't speak on regards to Seamonkey, Chrome, or Edge.

[GethN7]

And in other news, about five minutes ago my spontaneous logout problem began again.  Interestingly, I was on Recent Changes and watched it suddenly reload, going from my customized layout to the default visitor's layout without any prompting from me.

Whatever the hell is going on, it's happening on multiple computers and (so far) two different browsers.  Sometimes I get logged out and when I try to log back in it tells me I'm still centrally logged in and all I need to do is reload the page... which completely logs me out.

EDIT:  Well.  Chrome and Seamonkey are subject to the spontaneous logout.  Interestingly, Edge and IE are not, or at least have not started doing it yet.

I have several other browsers on my work machine, among them Firefox, Brave and Opera.  I'm going to have to give them a try, too, and see what happens.

I use Brave and have had no issues at all.

[robkelk]

Huh. Apparently broom surfing is a thing for the modern Cute Witch. (And those are just the examples that Safebooru has in its "official art" collection.)

Is it a trope in and of itself, though?

[Bob Schroeck]

Well.  This is interesting.

So, I started with multiple browsers this morning, and after a while I noticed that Chrome, my default on my work machine, wasn't locking me out.  So I closed everything and did a little wiki stuff here and there between other tasks all morning.  No problems.

Until about 1:30-1:45 PM EDT.  Then it abruptly decided I wanted to log out.  And stay logged out.

So... I opened up the wiki again in Firefox, Edge, Opera and Brave, logged in and went to Recent Changes.  Within a seconds, sometimes in the course of changing to the new page, I was logged out on Firefox and Edge (and Chrome again).  When I could log in long for enough to actually see Recent Changes with my user menu across the top of the page, it would spontaneously reload and I would be suddenly logged out.  I should note -- because I haven't up to now -- that I don't have "Live Updates" turned on.  I get annoyed by Recent Changes updating itself and scrolling while I'm trying to work through it so I always have the live updates turned off.  Recent Changes should not, under any circumstances, reload itself for me.

As an added extra bonus, it looks like Edge somehow managed to toggle the "Group changes by page" option for Recent Changes in my Preferences.  I had to go in and change it back.

Opera didn't log me out.  Interestingly, I had JavaScript turned off for Opera.  As an experiment I turned it back on, reloaded Recent Changes, and waited.  Took less than 10 seconds for the Recent Changes page to spontaneously reload with me logged out.  I've since re-disabled JavaScript and logged back in, and it has yet to kick me out.

Brave didn't log me out either.  Unlike Opera, it's not set to block scripts, but it appears something in its default security arrangements is blocking whatever is logging me out.

For reference, here are some of the error messages I've been seeing immediately after logging in.  There was one other that I got, but I couldn't get a screen clip fast enough.  Unlike these, it was a pop-up that appeared right under the "login" prompt in the upper right corner of the page.


  loginfailure3.PNG (Size: 6.54 KB / Downloads: 84)

  loginfailure2.PNG (Size: 13.39 KB / Downloads: 84)

  loginfailure1.PNG (Size: 10.46 KB / Downloads: 84)

So... the only conclusion I can currently draw is that there's something in the JavaScript for the various pages that's doing this to me, something that Brave considers advertising or advertising-adjacent and blocks by default. Time to open up the developers' tools and see what's actually in there.

[Bob Schroeck]

Brave didn't log me out either.

I spoke too soon. I left it alone for 45 minutes or so, and when I came back to it, I'd been logged out -- and when I logged back in I'd found my Group Changes option had been toggled again. And it won't let me restore it to what I want.

So far only Opera hasn't screwed with me today.

[Black Aeronaut]

.... Are we sure that there's nothing hinky going on here? Because if Bob is the only one having this problem, then it's starting to sound more and more like someone's trying to hijack his account.

[GethN7]

.... Are we sure that there's nothing hinky going on here?  Because if Bob is the only one having this problem, then it's starting to sound more and more like someone's trying to hijack his account.

I'm not sure, but it would likely be a good idea to ask Miraheze via Phabricator to check.

[robkelk]

Bob, are you having the same problems on any other Miraheze wiki (say, for example, the private wiki for There's Nothing Better)?

I have on rare occasion had issues with ATT that I haven't had with the freebie wiki or TNB. My best guess is that something doesn't like the URL alias. In those cases, I had to logout from one of the other wikis, clear all cookies from miraheze.org and allthetropes.org, and login again through the dedicated login wiki.

If your issues are cross-wiki, though, then I don't know what's happening...

[Bob Schroeck]

I have yet to see any of this happen with any other Miraheze wiki. I'm logged in to TNB's wiki, and have been for weeks. Likewise the FenWiki. I'm camping their recent changes pages, as well as that on the login wiki.

Speaking of the latter, I just tried to change my "Group changes" setting for its recent changes, and noticed I can't toggle it. The checkbox unchecks and the page claims to save my new preferences, but Recent Changes doesn't change its layout, and if I reopen Preferences the box is checked again.

Meanwhile the Fenwiki and TNB aren't playing games with me, and haven't to the best of my knowledge. And right now ATT isn't messing with me, either. I'm logged in through Seamonkey, so if it does start logging me out, I'll be able to use noscript to disable scripts from any server contributing to the page -- which is just miraheze right now. Once that happens, I'll go into the developer tools like I planned.

[robkelk]

FenWiki isn't on Miraheze - no surprise that it isn't affected.

Do the logout-scrub-login if you haven't already. If you have, then it's time for a Phabricator ticket.

[Black Aeronaut]

IIRC, Bob already tried that. It was time for a Phabricator ticket yesterday.

And remember folks: paranoia isn't when there is a real possibility that someone is actually out to get you!

[LulzKiller]

Interesting image licensing question:

Game comes out, images of such work copyrighted, it goes under fair use.

Game later gets relicensed to MIT license, the work is now technically free use, are images made of the work pre-relicense now able to be counted under the MIT license, or do we still keep to the original license of the game due to the time the image was made?

[robkelk]

Interesting image licensing question:

Game comes out, images of such work copyrighted, it goes under fair use.

Game later gets relicensed to MIT license, the work is now technically free use, are images made of the work pre-relicense now able to be counted under the MIT license, or do we still keep to the original license of the game due to the time the image was made?

We keep the original license as per when the image was made.

This doesn't stop us from making new images under the new license, of course.

[Bob Schroeck]

FenWiki isn't on Miraheze - no surprise that it isn't affected.

Do the logout-scrub-login if you haven't already. If you have, then it's time for a Phabricator ticket.

I've got a busier work day ahead of me than I had yesterday; this will have to wait until this evening.  And yes, I did this on my work machine but not on my personal machine, so I'll be doing another round.

That assumes the problem recurs, which I'm expecting it will.

EDIT: Which is not to say I won't file a Phab ticket. I have. Brent, I hope you don't mind that I CC'ed you on it.

[Bob Schroeck]

Well. In the few minutes since I posted that, it's been resolved as part of a known issue which apparently hasn't been solved yet. But at least it's not an attack.

[Bob Schroeck]

On another topic entirely... I happened to browse through our page at Wikidata and noticed that the email address field for the wiki as a whole is set to my personal admin email. I would rather it not be the primary point of contact, but I don't remember -- do we have a single "master" email that can be used for the wiki?

[LulzKiller]

On another topic entirely...  I happened to browse through our page at Wikidata and noticed that the email address field for the wiki as a whole is set to my personal admin email.  I would rather it not be the primary point of contact, but I don't remember -- do we have a single "master" email that can be used for the wiki?

I think it was brent@allthetropes.org per our DMCA policy.