All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXII

[LulzKiller]

I believe the consensus is to request a checkuser on BalonGreyjoy and Reddington, given that they are attempting to make the same edits with the same wording that are being held at Moderation at the same time.

Is this correct? Did I miss a username?

There might have been a third, but I can't find it on Moderation Log.

[Bob Schroeck]

DagonGreyjoy, created 18 minutes before BalonGreyjoy, at 7:04 AM on 30 September, according to the User creation log. Never used, but there and active.

[robkelk]

I'll file the request tomorrow morning. (I'm just about to shut down my computer now.)

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I couldn't believe this mod team with at least two BGC fans hadn't listed this particular example yet... until I saw that there's a group of tropes for the example, any of which might work.

I wasn't sure whether to list Lisa Vanette on "Intrepid Reporter", "Hot Scoop" (in her case, Cute Scoop), or "School Newspaper Newshound" - I finally settled on the School Newspaper Newshound since she's still a student. If I erred, please move the example.

[Bob Schroeck]

Perma-ban him. He's putting the wiki at risk.

Okay, will do so now.

EDIT: Done.

[LulzKiller]

Talked to another user who added a new work page, initial glances are not plagiarism but he hasn't added the right structure, so did that for him and told him to use Page Creator in future to make things easier.

[robkelk]

I'll file the request tomorrow morning. (I'm just about to shut down my computer now.)

Checkuser requested.

[LulzKiller]

I'll file the request tomorrow morning. (I'm just about to shut down my computer now.)

Checkuser requested.

And a steward has responded.

[Bob Schroeck]

Has anyone followed the steward's suggestion and contacted BalonGreyjoy yet? (I haven't been on the wiki since last night.)

[Bob Schroeck]

Just a heads-up: New user Hepzibah has been posting a lot of material from TV Tropes since starting to edit yesterday, all of it trope descriptions. She created a new page, Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries, with a reasonably different main text from TVT's version of the page, but copied all but two tropes from TVT word-for-word. (And then started on putting the same text on the individual trope pages.) I've put her on a short temp ban, wrote a note on her talk page, and purged several dozen edits from the moderation queue; I've also undone the few edits that made it through moderation, and replaced all copied text on the Miss Fisher page with the context template.

Regardless of if/how she responds to my note to her, don't just rubberstamp anything of hers that appears in moderation -- check it against TVT.

[robkelk]

Has anyone followed the steward's suggestion and contacted BalonGreyjoy yet?  (I haven't been on the wiki since last night.)

Not yet - i haven't seen the steward's suggestion until now. It's a good idea.

EDIT: Already done by the Steward.

[robkelk]

Is this contact information for DMCA requests still valid?

[LulzKiller]

Is this contact information for DMCA requests still valid?

I think I asked that a month ago and we checked it and found no complaints but that we agreed to change it to something else.

[Bob Schroeck]

Reddington and BalonGreyjoy continue to add edits to the moderation queue, despite it being now 13 hours since Dmehus posted his message on Reddington's talk page. Perhaps we need to remind all of him about what happens when you ignore admin communications.

[robkelk]

i just did.

@Reddington, you are free to disagree with the moderation staff. You are not free to ignore the moderation staff, or the Miraheze Stewards.

I see unreviewed edits from both BalonGreyjoy and Reddington in the moderation queue. These edits have time stamps that show they were made after the posts made above in this thread.

I therefore modify my statement above: We won't be blocking your accounts locally as long as you speak with us.

This is the warning that you are required to receive as per All The Tropes:How We Do Bans Around Here.

Your posting history shows that you are online every day. If you do not reply within 24 hours, we will temporarily remove the distraction of being able to edit the wiki other than this page until you do reply.

With pings to both accounts, all mods, and the Steward taking part in the issue.

[Bob Schroeck]

I added my own note just now:

Note also that all edits made by all accounts involved are being held in the Moderation queue until you respond. You can edit as much as you want up until that temp ban is applied, but none of it will ever see the light of day until you engage with us.

EDIT: How much do folks want to bet he trots out the old "I didn't realize you were trying to contact me" excuse and claims he never saw the top-of-page message flags?

[LulzKiller]

I added my own note just now:

Note also that all edits made by all accounts involved are being held in the Moderation queue until you respond.  You can edit as much as you want up until that temp ban is applied, but none of it will ever see the light of day until you engage with us.

EDIT:  How much do folks want to bet he trots out the old "I didn't realize you were trying to contact me" excuse and claims he never saw the top-of-page message flags?

What if the other excuse is one of the alternative accounts is his/her sibling/partner/spouse/therapist.

[robkelk]

I added my own note just now:

Note also that all edits made by all accounts involved are being held in the Moderation queue until you respond.  You can edit as much as you want up until that temp ban is applied, but none of it will ever see the light of day until you engage with us.

EDIT:  How much do folks want to bet he trots out the old "I didn't realize you were trying to contact me" excuse and claims he never saw the top-of-page message flags?

What if the other excuse is one of the alternative accounts is his/her sibling/partner/spouse/therapist.

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

[LulzKiller]

Just a heads-up:  New user Hepzibah has been posting a lot of material from TV Tropes since starting to edit yesterday, all of it trope descriptions.  She created a new page, Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries, with a reasonably different main text from TVT's version of the page, but copied all but two tropes from TVT word-for-word.  (And then started on putting the same text on the individual trope pages.)  I've put her on a short temp ban, wrote a note on her talk page, and purged several dozen edits from the moderation queue; I've also undone the few edits that made it through moderation, and replaced all copied text on the Miss Fisher page with the context template. 

Regardless of if/how she responds to my note to her, don't just rubberstamp anything of hers that appears in moderation -- check it against TVT.

He's claiming to be the author of the TVT equivalent. I have asked proof of his assertions.

[Bob Schroeck]

She's certainly not the sole author by any means, but if it's true it might explain why she rewrote the main text and brought over only a subset of the page's tropes. Unfortunately, my limited access to TVT's history doesn't clarify matters.

EDIT: Okay, Hepzibah's claiming to be TVT user "foxley". Can whoever it was who still had a live TVT account check the full history for the Miss Fisher show and see what foxley's done on it?

Meanwhile, we need to come up with some kind of protocol for actually verifying stuff like this. As I noted in my comment to Hepzibah, I think this is the first time we've asked for verification and the user in question hasn't disappeared from the knowledge of Man. We've never actually needed to confirm a claim before now, and we need to figure out how to do it for the future -- if we don't simply go on the honor system.

EDIT 2: We need to make it clearer somewhere that in cases like this the user needs to put their copyright claim in the edit reason. Exactly where, I don't know. Right on the edit page, perhaps?

[GethN7]

She's certainly not the sole author by any means, but if it's true it might explain why she rewrote the main text and brought over only a subset of the page's tropes.  Unfortunately, my limited access to TVT's history doesn't clarify matters.

EDIT:  Okay, Hepzibah's claiming to be TVT user "foxley".  Can whoever it was who still had a live TVT account check the full history for the Miss Fisher show and see what foxley's done on it?

Meanwhile, we need to come up with some kind of protocol for actually verifying stuff like this.  As I noted in my comment to Hepzibah, I think this is the first time we've asked for verification and the user in question hasn't disappeared from the knowledge of Man.  We've never actually needed to confirm a claim before now, and we need to figure out how to do it for the future -- if we don't simply go on the honor system.

EDIT 2:  We need to make it clearer somewhere that in cases like this the user needs to put their copyright claim in the edit reason.  Exactly where, I don't know.  Right on the edit page, perhaps?

Foxley checks out. They did write nigh all the page and what they ported over appears to match their edits.

I have also, on behalf of ATT, sent Fighteer a polite message that reads as follows:

Subject: Would like to make a request to make catching plagiarism easier

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On behalf of All The Tropes, I'd like to ask if TV Tropes could make page histories (not page sources, we need only editing histories for plagiarism checking purposes) visible to non-users. We get some people who claim to be certain tropers porting over their edits, and a few have turned out to partially lie (claiming they are bringing over all their own work when they did not make the original edits, only select revisions) or willing to utterly lie (saying it's all theirs, and when pressed they tend to ghost on us when we demand they provide proof).

We use the Moderation extension, which allows holding edits in a queue before approval, only disabling this for trusted users, and being able to examine page histories would allow us to filter out possible plagiarism more effectively without compromising anything important, to my knowledge, on TV Tropes' end. Other websites besides ours may also benefit from being able to check such information to screen for plagiarism as well.

I understand this decision is likely not yours alone to make, so I respectfully request you present it to your fellow staff members or whomever you need to if such is required.

Note: I'm the only ATT staff member with an account here, and since other staff either have no interest in making an account here or were banned long ago and have no intention of returning, I ask the above so we can avoid legal troubles more effectively.


UPDATE: Fighteer got back to me, and his response was that we'd need to speak to the owners of the site (like Drew) over this, the decision to not show page histories is due to a CDN caching concern and decisions on that level are above his pay grade. Untill then, unless we have an account (such as yours truly does), the page histories remain behind the login.

[robkelk]

Excellent request. Thank you, Geth.

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We're down to sixteen entries left on "All The Tropes:No Real Life Examples, Please" that may or may not be TVT control issues. Funnily enough, they're all Sex Tropes.

We've started discussion threads on the tropes' Talk pages. Mods, if you haven't logged in lately, expect to see a lot of "mentioned you" notifications...

[LulzKiller]

Caching problem.
Regexed all entries in https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Category:L...TV/Awesome to include the hyphen.

All pages show the hyphen but only 95 visibly moved over to the hypened category even after refreshing cache. Is there a way of forcing MW to recognise the change or do I have to manually remove/rollback the categories to remove the redundancy?

[robkelk]

This is one reason why a regex run is considered to be a bot run and needs prior approval...

No, I'm not aware of an automated fix for this. (I had to go in and force a couple-hundred images to be listed in the correct categories last month.)

[Bob Schroeck]

Thank you for contacting TVT, Geth. I am surprised that Fighteer was civil to you, given his history with us.

[LulzKiller]

Thank you for contacting TVT, Geth.  I am surprised that Fighteer was civil to you, given his history with us.

Before you close this thread, you need to put part XXI into the ATT archive section as well.