All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXIII

[robkelk]

We're down to sixteen entries left on "All The Tropes:No Real Life Examples, Please" that may or may not be TVT control issues. Funnily enough, they're all Sex Tropes.

We've started discussion threads on the tropes' Talk pages. Mods, if you haven't logged in lately, expect to see a lot of "mentioned you" notifications...

I'm seeing some themes in the replies to these threads:

• NRL is stupid / TVT-control-freakery here and should be killed with fire
  
• Historical examples only
  
• Not physically posible in RL
  
• Yeah, let's keep NRL
  

Luckily, most of the threads are already gaining consensus as to which of the above applies to each trope.

I'd still prefer to keep the discussion going for a day, at least, to give other tropers time to comment - especially where we don't yet have consensus.

It's been three days, and I've added notes and removed {{noreallife}} wherever we had consensus.

We have three tropes where we haven't yet come to a consensus on whether to allow Real Life Examples: Naughty by Night, Nipple-and-Dimed, and Right Through His Pants.

Now what? Inaction equates to accepting the status quo.

And I know people tend to ignore my questions here... but ignoring this one means you are blindly agreeing with TV Tropes.

[robkelk]

Is there some reason why our page for AC/DC doesn't include the slash?

Using the "{{TOPLEVELPAGE}}" magic word instead of the "{{ROOTPAGENAME}}" magic word - as our tropesubpagefooter and worksubpagefooter templates have been doing for months - allows for slashes in root page names, so that isn't an issue unless somebody's created an unrelated page named "AC".

[robkelk]

Please comment on this policy change request

[Bob Schroeck]

And I know people tend to ignore my questions here... but ignoring this one means you are blindly agreeing with TV Tropes.

Oooooooooh, low blow, Rob.  <grin>

[Bob Schroeck]

Here's a "Do We Have This?" question:

Do we have a trope for hiding behind a drape to avoid being seen?

The Ur example is of course Polonius hiding behind the arras in Hamlet (which he fails at, and gets stabbed for his effort), but I'm sure people can think of many more modern examples.

I'm pretty sure we don't have it, as we don't have any page with both the words "Hamlet" and "arras" on them, and the trope would be unthinkable without that example. But I want to confirm it before I add it to my long list of tropes to draft.

[Umbire]

Previous thread is previous.

---

We're down to sixteen entries left on "All The Tropes:No Real Life Examples, Please" that may or may not be TVT control issues. Funnily enough, they're all Sex Tropes.

We've started discussion threads on the tropes' Talk pages. Mods, if you haven't logged in lately, expect to see a lot of "mentioned you" notifications...

I'm seeing some themes in the replies to these threads:

• NRL is stupid / TVT-control-freakery here and should be killed with fire
  
• Historical examples only
  
• Not physically posible in RL
  
• Yeah, let's keep NRL
  

Luckily, most of the threads are already gaining consensus as to which of the above applies to each trope.

I'd still prefer to keep the discussion going for a day, at least, to give other tropers time to comment - especially where we don't yet have consensus.

Understanding I'm late here, but what's the update on this?

[robkelk]

Previous thread is previous.

---

We're down to sixteen entries left on "All The Tropes:No Real Life Examples, Please" that may or may not be TVT control issues. Funnily enough, they're all Sex Tropes.

We've started discussion threads on the tropes' Talk pages. Mods, if you haven't logged in lately, expect to see a lot of "mentioned you" notifications...

I'm seeing some themes in the replies to these threads:

• NRL is stupid / TVT-control-freakery here and should be killed with fire
  
• Historical examples only
  
• Not physically posible in RL
  
• Yeah, let's keep NRL
  

Luckily, most of the threads are already gaining consensus as to which of the above applies to each trope.

I'd still prefer to keep the discussion going for a day, at least, to give other tropers time to comment - especially where we don't yet have consensus.

Understanding I'm late here, but what's the update on this?

Most recent update is here:

We're down to sixteen entries left on "All The Tropes:No Real Life Examples, Please" that may or may not be TVT control issues. Funnily enough, they're all Sex Tropes.

We've started discussion threads on the tropes' Talk pages. Mods, if you haven't logged in lately, expect to see a lot of "mentioned you" notifications...

I'm seeing some themes in the replies to these threads:

• NRL is stupid / TVT-control-freakery here and should be killed with fire
  
• Historical examples only
  
• Not physically posible in RL
  
• Yeah, let's keep NRL
  

Luckily, most of the threads are already gaining consensus as to which of the above applies to each trope.

I'd still prefer to keep the discussion going for a day, at least, to give other tropers time to comment - especially where we don't yet have consensus.

It's been three days, and I've added notes and removed {{noreallife}} wherever we had consensus.

We have three tropes where we haven't yet come to a consensus on whether to allow Real Life Examples: Naughty by Night, Nipple-and-Dimed, and Right Through His Pants.

Now what? Inaction equates to accepting the status quo.

And I know people tend to ignore my questions here... but ignoring this one means you are blindly agreeing with TV Tropes.

As I expected, people ignored my question all weekend.

[Umbire]

Most recent update is here:

[-snip-]

As I expected, people ignored my question all weekend.

I mean I've just got through putting my two pence in before typing my reply here - far as editing regularly here again, habits are hard to break and harder to rebuild. And on the note of two pence: I'm always going to be of the opinion that leveraging TVTropes' position as a cudgel is not particularly conducive to consensus IMO.

But I've weighed in regardless, so let's see where it goes from there. Hopefully this spurs a bit more activity on the matter.

[robkelk]

Most recent update is here:

[-snip-]

As I expected, people ignored my question all weekend.

I mean I've just got through putting my two pence in before typing my reply here - far as editing regularly here again, habits are hard to break and harder to rebuild. And on the note of two pence: I'm always going to be of the opinion that leveraging TVTropes' position as a cudgel is not particularly conducive to consensus IMO.

But I've weighed in regardless, so let's see where it goes from there. Hopefully this spurs a bit more activity on the matter.

Making a single statement of position and then leaving the discussion does not build consensus either.

I'm not leveraging TVTropes' position as a cudgel for consensus - I'm leveraging TVTropes' position as a cudgel to get people to say something. Being nice doesn't work - I have to be nasty to get any replies at all.

[Umbire]

Regrettable but understood.

And far from commenting on each one and leaving - I'm laying down replies to see if anyone has anything to add at all. It's a bit of a moot point if I can't also nudge someone to put in a bit of legwork myself.

[robkelk]

If we can get consensus on this wording - either changed or used as-is - then we can take that trope off the NRL list... but we need consensus.

[Bob Schroeck]

As I expected, people ignored my question all weekend.

I felt I made my stances on all three very clear last week, but I have gone in and reiterated my positions just now.

[robkelk]

Making a stance is just the first part of building a consensus - if somebody raises an opposed position, there needs to be discussion.

Anyway.

Found two more tropes that might need NRL. Discussion here, please.

[Umbire]

I take it the bee liker's additions are being vetted for any copyright infringement?

[Bob Schroeck]

Yes, I vetted every one at the beginning of their contributions. I saw no copyright infringement at any point. I will admit that I have recently gotten in the habit of approving without checking because of their history, and have been considering nominating them for autopatrolled/automoderated.

[Umbire]

Yes, I vetted every one at the beginning of their contributions.  I saw no copyright infringement at any point.  I will admit that I have recently gotten in the habit of approving without checking because of their history, and have been considering nominating them for autopatrolled/automoderated.

Yeah, p. thorough descriptions, been filling out recent media... would be cool.

[Bob Schroeck]

If no one objects by tomorrow, I'll promote them.

[robkelk]

Regarding the Trope Workshop - Is it a hard-and-fast rule that mod-proposed tropes need ten examples, or is that just something we encourage to set an example?

Asking because I'm having trouble getting this candidate past five examples.

[Umbire]

Regarding the Trope Workshop - Is it a hard-and-fast rule that mod-proposed tropes need ten examples, or is that just something we encourage to set an example?

Asking because I'm having trouble getting this candidate past five examples.

I feel we could get over 10 with that + the strip club candidate. Brain's a bit stalled, though.

[Umbire]

Also, asking here since it's a bit more likely to be seen:

You Know That Trope Where games have limited-time-frame events that aren't necessarily tied to specific holidays, but rather just particular days of the week, say?

I FEEL like we have something for that already, maybe as a supertrope to Holiday Mode, but I can't think of what it would be named...

[robkelk]

I do believe that this strip is the first time I've ever seen an aversion lampshaded.

[Bob Schroeck]

Regarding the Trope Workshop - Is it a hard-and-fast rule that mod-proposed tropes need ten examples, or is that just something we encourage to set an example?

I think we started doing that to avoid the impression that we were fast-tracking admin-created candidates.  By setting a higher bar for mod-created trope candidates we made it clear we weren't showing favoritism.

[Bob Schroeck]

Also, asking here since it's a bit more likely to be seen:

You Know That Trope Where games have limited-time-frame events that aren't necessarily tied to specific holidays, but rather just particular days of the week, say?

I FEEL like we have something for that already, maybe as a supertrope to Holiday Mode, but I can't think of what it would be named...

That doesn't ring a bell, but I'll keep an eye out for while I do my usual random walk through fixing things.

[robkelk]

Regarding the Trope Workshop - Is it a hard-and-fast rule that mod-proposed tropes need ten examples, or is that just something we encourage to set an example?

I think we started doing that to avoid the impression that we were fast-tracking admin-created candidates.  By setting a higher bar for mod-created trope candidates we made it clear we weren't showing favoritism.

That's fair. (Rather, it's being seen to be fair, which is in some ways more important.)

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Also, asking here since it's a bit more likely to be seen:

You Know That Trope Where games have limited-time-frame events that aren't necessarily tied to specific holidays, but rather just particular days of the week, say?

I FEEL like we have something for that already, maybe as a supertrope to Holiday Mode, but I can't think of what it would be named...

That doesn't ring a bell, but I'll keep an eye out for while I do my usual random walk through fixing things.

Likewise. If I were to look (I'm not feeling well today), I'd start looking at the categories about tropes about cut-scenes, and see whether there's anything listed there.

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Question about copyright: Canada and many other countries still use the Berne Convention rule of "life plus 50 years" for copyright terms. The UK and US use "life plus 70 years". I've seen some files on Commons that use the Berne rule and thus are PD in the country of the uploader but fairuse in the US. What's the wiki's take on using these files?

I ask because John W. Campbell died in 1971, and thus his stories (including "Who Goes There?", which the wiki has a page for) become PD in Canada on January 1.

[Bob Schroeck]

I seem to recall the actual wiki hardware resides outside of the US. Wouldn't that mean that it's governed by the laws/policies of the nation where it's physically located?