Wear Your Mask - COVID-19 Thread II

[robkelk]

Yesterday, Neil Young told Spotify to make a choice: take down virus misinformation or take down Neil Young's music.

In an open letter to his manager and record label that was posted to his website and later taken down, Young wrote: “I am doing this because Spotify is spreading fake information about vaccines – potentially causing death to those who believe the disinformation being spread by them. Please act on this immediately today and keep me informed of the time schedule.”

Young specified that his decision was motivated by The Joe Rogan Experience, which is currently Spotify’s most popular podcast and one of the biggest in the world. Rogan signed a US$100m deal in 2020 giving Spotify exclusive rights to the show.

Today, Spotify announced that they're taking down Neil Young's music.


So... Since Spotify places their corporate bottom line ahead of their listeners' health, anybody have any suggestions for alternate music services?

Joni Mitchell is following Neil Young's lead.

In her message, Mitchell linked to a letter signed by a coalition of scientists, medical professionals and professors that criticizes Spotify for featuring Rogan podcasts that they say include misinformation about the pandemic, including discouraging vaccinations in young people and children.

[classicdrogn]

If only Spotify was doing this out of principal rather than to follow the money, I'd be cheering them on for resisting censorship. The material involved being factually wrong and harmful if put into practice doesn't make it substantially different from reams of fiction, travelogues, older/sketchier nonfiction, or (insert any religious text but the one the person shouting follows here)

[robkelk]

If only Spotify was doing this out of principal rather than to follow the money, I'd be cheering them on for resisting censorship. The material involved being factually wrong and harmful if put into practice doesn't make it substantially different from reams of fiction, travelogues, older/sketchier nonfiction, or (insert any religious text but the one the person shouting follows here)

No censorship here - the people who are insisting Spotify make a choice are telling them "one or the other", not "me".

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, I will say the one key effect is on someone who wasn't bothering to use a streaming service to listen to her music as it was - that same person has taken note, and is much, much more unlikely to consider switching to a streaming service for music at anytime in the future. This, unfortunately, means that Spotify's competitors are also going to be missing out because of their decision.

Yeah, I will make a note, I'm tired after well over two years of Collective Continuous Pandemic Trauma being inflicted on me, and don't have enough bandwidth left to vet things before purchase anymore. In a number of cases, it means I'm likely to start shedding hobbies rather than sort through the dross in those industries to find what I can purchase ethically.

[Labster]

Though this is way off topic, as it was explained to me, Spotify is in a bit of a bind. The sequence goes like this: we're a software company (that has music), we gotta grow fast and get lots of users -> great, we're big, how do we make profits -> podcast ads are worth more because people don't skip them -> let's produce podcasts. They're a publisher to Joe Rogan, but just a platform to Neil Young. So which obligation wins? Simultaneously, they can make the more profitable Joe Rogan fans upset along with the podcasters who make them, or they can make the more numerous classic rock fans upset.

The way out is to make the moral choice, but I really don't think that's clear either. And it definitely depends on what morals you value more. Academic freedom is important to me, even when it costs lives -- because sometimes it actually saves lives instead. See the failed amyloid plaque hypothesis of Alzheimers, which cost us ten years of research because brain researchers had to self-censor to get funding.

[Umbire]

Though this is way off topic, as it was explained to me, Spotify is in a bit of a bind.  The sequence goes like this: we're a software company (that has music), we gotta grow fast and get lots of users -> great, we're big, how do we make profits -> podcast ads are worth more because people don't skip them -> let's produce podcasts.  They're a publisher to Joe Rogan, but just a platform to Neil Young.  So which obligation wins?  Simultaneously, they can make the more profitable Joe Rogan fans upset along with the podcasters who make them, or they can make the more numerous classic rock fans upset.

The way out is to make the moral choice, but I really don't think that's clear either.  And it definitely depends on what morals you value more.  Academic freedom is important to me, even when it costs lives -- because sometimes it actually saves lives instead.  See the failed amyloid plaque hypothesis of Alzheimers, which cost us ten years of research because brain researchers had to self-censor to get funding.

Considering that one clip of Rogan insisting on clearly incorrect information even as his guest directs him to look into it and verify, I don't think this is as open-and-shut an "academic freedom" thing as one might like to believe.

In any case, the "ideal moral choice", such as it is, would have been to not chase profit at the expense of service integrity to begin with - but in the world we live in, it took this and the fairly consistent overlooking of other, also-genuinely objectionable shit on Rogan's part for us to get here.

[robkelk]

Though this is way off topic, as it was explained to me, Spotify is in a bit of a bind.  The sequence goes like this: we're a software company (that has music), we gotta grow fast and get lots of users -> great, we're big, how do we make profits -> podcast ads are worth more because people don't skip them -> let's produce podcasts.  They're a publisher to Joe Rogan, but just a platform to Neil Young.  So which obligation wins?  Simultaneously, they can make the more profitable Joe Rogan fans upset along with the podcasters who make them, or they can make the more numerous classic rock fans upset.

The way out is to make the moral choice, but I really don't think that's clear either.  And it definitely depends on what morals you value more.  Academic freedom is important to me, even when it costs lives -- because sometimes it actually saves lives instead.  See the failed amyloid plaque hypothesis of Alzheimers, which cost us ten years of research because brain researchers had to self-censor to get funding.

There was another way out.

As you said, they're the publisher for Joe Rogan, much like CBS is the publisher for home video releases of many older TV shows (including Star Trek) and Sentai Filmworks is the publisher for a noticeable fraction of anime.

CBS and Sentai put non-skippable disclaimers at the start of their disks, saying something along the lines of "the views expressed here are not necessarily the views of the publisher". (No doubt the exact text is copyrighted.) And we're all familiar with non-skippable ads in front of YouTube videos. So the technology to put a message at the start of a video exists and has been proven to work in real-world conditions.

And Twitter puts fact-check notices on tweets that are determined to contain misinformation.

All Neil Young asked for originally was a disclaimer at the start Joe Rogan's podcasts that contain misinformation, saying so.

Spotify didn't do that.

And that is what lead to "him or me", followed by so many artists pulling their content from Spotify.

[robkelk]

Getting a bunch of protesters demonstrating at Parliament Hill today - truckers who don't want to get their shots but still want to be allowed to cross the border (so they're complaining to us instead of to Washington), with the accretion of the expected anti-vaxxers - a friend who's actually seen the convoy says it looks like ten pickups for every one commercial truck.

He also called it the "Flu Trux Klan", which I think is apropos; choices have consequences, and these folks don't like the consequences of their choices so they want to be placed above the law.

This protest is continuing.

After keeping people awake all hours of the night every night last week, the protest's organizers offered to have the protesters stop honking their trucks' horns between 9am and 1pm today. Honking resumed at 10am -- which shows how little control the protest's organizers actually have.

Thus, the city is now in a state of emergency. And police will be preventing fuel and food from reaching the protesters.

The city's big winter festival, which was supposed to get thousands of people out of their homes and into the fresh air, is now online only. Mind you, that was going to happen this year anyway, but it's one more straw on the camel's back.

Well, at least Stephen Colbert apologized to Canada about this, so things aren't completely bad... but, yeah, I had to look south of the border to get a chuckle out of the situation.

[Umbire]

Though this is way off topic, as it was explained to me, Spotify is in a bit of a bind.  The sequence goes like this: we're a software company (that has music), we gotta grow fast and get lots of users -> great, we're big, how do we make profits -> podcast ads are worth more because people don't skip them -> let's produce podcasts.  They're a publisher to Joe Rogan, but just a platform to Neil Young.  So which obligation wins?  Simultaneously, they can make the more profitable Joe Rogan fans upset along with the podcasters who make them, or they can make the more numerous classic rock fans upset.

The way out is to make the moral choice, but I really don't think that's clear either.  And it definitely depends on what morals you value more.  Academic freedom is important to me, even when it costs lives -- because sometimes it actually saves lives instead.  See the failed amyloid plaque hypothesis of Alzheimers, which cost us ten years of research because brain researchers had to self-censor to get funding.

There was another way out.

As you said, they're the publisher for Joe Rogan, much like CBS is the publisher for home video releases of many older TV shows (including Star Trek) and Sentai Filmworks is the publisher for a noticeable fraction of anime.

CBS and Sentai put non-skippable disclaimers at the start of their disks, saying something along the lines of "the views expressed here are not necessarily the views of the publisher". (No doubt the exact text is copyrighted.) And we're all familiar with non-skippable ads in front of YouTube videos. So the technology to put a message at the start of a video exists and has been proven to work in real-world conditions.

And Twitter puts fact-check notices on tweets that are determined to contain misinformation.

All Neil Young asked for originally was a disclaimer at the start Joe Rogan's podcasts that contain misinformation, saying so.

Spotify didn't do that.

And that is what lead to "him or me", followed by so many artists pulling their content from Spotify.

Fast forward to Spotify removing several episodes with instances of the N-word from Rogan, which only further highlights the absolute cowardice of their non-decision.

[robkelk]

Getting a bunch of protesters demonstrating at Parliament Hill today - truckers who don't want to get their shots but still want to be allowed to cross the border (so they're complaining to us instead of to Washington), with the accretion of the expected anti-vaxxers - a friend who's actually seen the convoy says it looks like ten pickups for every one commercial truck.

He also called it the "Flu Trux Klan", which I think is apropos; choices have consequences, and these folks don't like the consequences of their choices so they want to be placed above the law.

This protest is continuing.

After keeping people awake all hours of the night every night last week, the protest's organizers offered to have the protesters stop honking their trucks' horns between 9am and 1pm today. Honking resumed at 10am -- which shows how little control the protest's organizers actually have.

Thus, the city is now in a state of emergency. And police will be preventing fuel and food from reaching the protesters.

The city's big winter festival, which was supposed to get thousands of people out of their homes and into the fresh air, is now online only. Mind you, that was going to happen this year anyway, but it's one more straw on the camel's back.

Well, at least Stephen Colbert apologized to Canada about this, so things aren't completely bad... but, yeah, I had to look south of the border to get a chuckle out of the situation.

The entire province is now under a state of emergency, because a second truck-blockade went up at the busiest border crossing with the USA and Joe Biden took notice. (Further discussion about the latter part of that belongs in Politics.)

We'll see what happens this weekend.

[robkelk]

Getting a bunch of protesters demonstrating at Parliament Hill today - truckers who don't want to get their shots but still want to be allowed to cross the border (so they're complaining to us instead of to Washington), with the accretion of the expected anti-vaxxers - a friend who's actually seen the convoy says it looks like ten pickups for every one commercial truck.

He also called it the "Flu Trux Klan", which I think is apropos; choices have consequences, and these folks don't like the consequences of their choices so they want to be placed above the law.

This protest is continuing.

After keeping people awake all hours of the night every night last week, the protest's organizers offered to have the protesters stop honking their trucks' horns between 9am and 1pm today. Honking resumed at 10am -- which shows how little control the protest's organizers actually have.

Thus, the city is now in a state of emergency. And police will be preventing fuel and food from reaching the protesters.

The city's big winter festival, which was supposed to get thousands of people out of their homes and into the fresh air, is now online only. Mind you, that was going to happen this year anyway, but it's one more straw on the camel's back.

Well, at least Stephen Colbert apologized to Canada about this, so things aren't completely bad... but, yeah, I had to look south of the border to get a chuckle out of the situation.

The entire province is now under a state of emergency, because a second truck-blockade went up at the busiest border crossing with the USA and Joe Biden took notice. (Further discussion about the latter part of that belongs in Politics.)

We'll see what happens this weekend.

Well, the border-crossing protest has been cleared away.

Here in Ottawa...

We're now into the third week of what the organizers said would be a three-day protest... so, once all this is over, be very wary of any time estimates these people give you for delivery.

The court order against sounding horns is being flouted. (And the police continue to fail to enforce the injunction.) So much for "peaceful protest" - the protesters continue to claim they want freedom while they deny people the freedom to sleep at night or attend school or do business.

[classicdrogn]

Well, if thinking things through was their forte, there'd be a lot less people protesting against minimal measures for the common benefit.

[robkelk]

Oh, they thought things through. CBC News is reporting that two special forces soldiers are involved... and are in the process of being drummed out of the armed forces for taking part in the protest.

[robkelk]

Mounties seize guns and arrest 11 protesters at border blockade in Alberta

Alberta RCMP have arrested 11 people after searching three trailers and finding weapons at a protest against pandemic restrictions near the main U.S. border crossing in southern Alberta.

Damnit, keep your gun culture on your own side of the border! We have enough problems up here as it is.

[robkelk]

Because of the anti-vaxx protests, the Emergencies Act has just been invoked for the first time since it replaced the War Measures Act. No plans to call out the military to deal with the protests... yet. (It still needs to be ratified by Parliament within seven days, but it's effective upon declaration.)

Congratulations, protesters - you just made history.

EDIT: Oh, yes... Everyone who in trying to visit Canada to take part in a protest while the Emergencies Act is in effect is being turned away at the border.

[robkelk]

Because of the anti-vaxx protests, the Emergencies Act has just been invoked for the first time since it replaced the War Measures Act. No plans to call out the military to deal with the protests... yet. (It still needs to be ratified by Parliament within seven days, but it's effective upon declaration.)

Congratulations, protesters - you just made history.

EDIT: Oh, yes... Everyone who in trying to visit Canada to take part in a protest while the Emergencies Act is in effect is being turned away at the border.

First casualty of the Emergencies Act: The career of Ottawa's Chief of Police.

[robkelk]

Because of the anti-vaxx protests, the Emergencies Act has just been invoked for the first time since it replaced the War Measures Act. No plans to call out the military to deal with the protests... yet. (It still needs to be ratified by Parliament within seven days, but it's effective upon declaration.)

Congratulations, protesters - you just made history.

EDIT: Oh, yes... Everyone who in trying to visit Canada to take part in a protest while the Emergencies Act is in effect is being turned away at the border.

First casualty of the Emergencies Act: The career of Ottawa's Chief of Police.

Second (possible) casualty: the political career of the chair of the police services board, the group that oversees the Ottawa police. Time will tell, since she's running for mayor this fall.

And protesters have been warned twice: leave or face arrest.

Bank accounts are being frozen - definitely of protesters, possibly also of crowdfunding donors.

And the Children's Aid Society has announced that they will "work to reunite families as soon as possible" after arrests. Yes, some protesters brought their children along.

At this rate, maybe the museums that I wanted to visit during my vacation will re-open just after my vacation ends...

[robkelk]

Arrests have begun.

You want to not get a shot? That's your choice.

You want to not get a shot but not have to live with the consequences of your choice? That's not happening.

You want to not get a shot, not have to live with the consequences of your choice, and force your choice on other people? That's illegal.

[robkelk]

Researchers discover first possible case of deer spreading COVID-19 virus to a human

[robkelk]

Ontario to lift the requirement to wear masks in two weeks, and lift all other pandemic rules just before the provincial election campaign.

Unlike every other announcement about pandemic rules in Ontario, this one was not delivered by the Premier. Read into that what you will.

(Federal rules remain in place, so masks are at the moment still required on trains and planes.)

[LynnInDenver]

OK, so we keep getting hits that are basically making it harder for us to personally justify resuming our convention going, even being triple shotted and wearing masks:

https://twitter.com/TOttomatic/status/15...2690045955

I'm hoping the Game Developer's Conference has taken a list of whoever was doing the "I've tested positive but I don't give a shit and still going to this conference" and is applying a permanent ban of them from the conference going forward. That this happened at all is not acceptable.

[classicdrogn]

This. This kind of thing is why I still wear a mask everywhere but at home or in the car, and don't go anywhere if it's not absolutely necessary. More than my normal pre-2020 outwardly-indistinguishable-from-quarantine habits, even.

[robkelk]

Ontario has no plans to reintroduce mask mandates even as 6th wave of COVID-19 underway

By the way, there's an election coming up some time in the next two months.

[Inquisitive Raven]

Philadelphia is reinstating its mask mandate starting Monday. Ironically, that's when the transit system's mask mandate had been set to end.

[Bob Schroeck]

Well, Peg and I had a close call this past week.

About a month ago, Helen and Attila went on a long-delayed trip to Italy and Greece. We picked them up from the airport last Tuesday, and Helen came by for a visit on that Friday night... and on Sunday morning called us to let us know that she and Attila were feeling like crap and they'd tested positive for COVID-19 on a home test. (And that they had to have caught it on the flight(s) home, because they had tested negative the morning before they left.)

"Well, crap," was basically our response because we were both feeling ever so slightly yucky that morning ourselves. But that was pretty much it for us. I talked to our doctor on Monday afternoon, and she basically said that as good as we actually were feeling, all we had to do was isolate for a week and use one of our own home tests. If it was negative, do a second one three days later, and even if that one was positive, no big, because by the end of the isolation period we wouldn't be infectious anyway. The only real concern was if our symptoms, such as they were, suddenly got worse.

They didn't, and both sets of tests were negative, so we never caught anything. But it was a bit of a scare there for a couple days.