Russian lawmakers authorize Putin to use military force outside the country

[robkelk]

AP story

[Black Aeronaut]

*Sighs*

Here we go again. Welcome to the Cold War II.

[Labster]

Not really. In fact, Donald Trump had some very choice words about Putin: “This is genius!” and “Wonderful” and “ How smart is that? And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper.”

So it looks like Republicans are pro-invasion, while Democrats are the real national security hawks.

[Dartz]

This has had the feeling of inevitability for weeks.

The radio this morning was playing 'We Don't Need another Hero'. I wondered if that was their take on the eventual outcome.

You wonder how people felt when the Black Hand did it's thing to Franz Ferdinand and it seemed to be one of those things that just happened in Eastern Europe until it sort of metastised into something far bigger.

The Cold War seemed more sensible somehow.

[Labster]

I listened to a history podcast instead. Putin's analysis of history claims that Ukraine isn't a real nation or people, based on a vassalization that happened three centuries ago, even though it's technically a country now. This they noted that this is equivalent to saying that there's no such thing as an Irishman, because people in Ireland are basically British because they became part of that country a long time ago, and they mostly speak English now.

This is just as nuts when applied to Ukraine. The main reason the Soviet Union became a union of SSRs is because Ukrainians wanted a separate polity for their own culture and thus Lenin organized the whole system around it. They were the ones who got Ukraine to be a founding member of the United Nations... which would be pretty weird if it was not a nation.

I guess it's time to get another cold one.

[Black Aeronaut]

I’m just wondering what Putin hopes to achieve by doing this. Because there’s no way in hell that I think he really expects the UN, NATO, and the United States to just heave to on this matter. I mean, there’s no way in hell I expect them to just hand over Ukraine to Russia. Especially not the way we practically handed over Crimea.

But what sort of compromise he expects to gain from this, I have no idea.

[hazard]

NATO has been pretty big in words and not so big in action when faced with Russian aggression previously, and the USA is not exactly united right now, so he may be banking on a divided USA resulting in an unfocused and squandered response that is light on effective measures.

[robkelk]

It took longer than I expected for the invasion to begin.

The west has called for sanctions. But what can we block? Russia is a net exporter of food, oil, natural gas, and weapons systems. Stock market delistings won't stop the military. And they already have nukes.

[Dartz]

AN-225 is gone. Destroyed by artillery.
There's a pitched battle around Chernobyl
Russians have lost some helicopters and tanks but they're sort of not talking about it.
Ukraine doing better than expected in the same way Leighton Orient might do better than expected against Manchester United -- the result won't really be in doubt. It's all about turning Ukraine into a quagmire at this point by feeding them Stingers and Javelins.

People are blaming NATO for this, for advancing into Russia's 'Sphere of Influence'. This, is of course, predicated on the assumption that the smaller nations have no agency of their own, and exist only to be the pawns for the larger. This denies of course, that these countries asked for NATO membership because - well - what the fuck benefit has being associated with Russia ever brought other than misery. They couldn't get away fast enough to happy Europeanism.

One suspects these are the same sort of people who blame their wife for making them hit her.

[robkelk]

People are blaming NATO for this, for advancing into Russia's 'Sphere of Influence'. This, is of course, predicated on the assumption that the smaller nations have no agency of their own, and exist only to be the pawns for the larger. This denies of course, that these countries asked for NATO membership because - well - what the fuck benefit has being associated with Russia ever brought other than misery. They couldn't get away fast enough to happy Europeanism.

One suspects these are the same sort of people who blame their wife for making them hit her.

Isn't that like blaming Ireland for The Troubles because they "advanced" into Donegal?

It's up to the people who live in a place who they want to associate with, and if the bigger guy next door doesn't like it... too bad.

[Dartz]

I think it's kind of time we said something. I mean, otherwise what other small nation could be allowed to go about its way in peace.


Of course, the usual suspects have blocked cutting Russia off from Swift. Because Germany, of course.


EDIT: Irish Government. "We have strong feelings in one particular way"

[Black Aeronaut]

AN-225 is gone. Destroyed by artillery.
There's a pitched battle around Chernobyl

Fer fuck's sake.  Are they trying to make this as messy as possible?  And I would have thought they might have wanted to capture the AN-225 for its tactical value as a heavy-lift transport, not destroy it.  They really don't give a shit, do they?

[robkelk]

AN-225 is gone. Destroyed by artillery.
There's a pitched battle around Chernobyl

Fer fuck's sake.  Are they trying to make this as messy as possible?  And I would have thought they might have wanted to capture the AN-225 for its tactical value as a heavy-lift transport, not destroy it.  They really don't give a shit, do they?

Putin's already threatened to use nukes against anybody who intervenes militarily in his invasion of Ukraine. Why would things be different here?

[Dartz]

And France has reminded everyone it has nuclear weapons too. Correct me if I'm wrong - but people generally didn't use the N-word during the Cold War to avoid unsettling people?

And I may have been wrong about the AN-225. It's supposedly fine according to the airline.



RTE news had the Russian ambassador on television today. Or, as the presenter referred to him - "ambassador to Ireland, for the moment". There's noises of expulsion.


Meanwhile, the Irish government is being loud and noisy about things, State television is being loud and angry, and people are outside the Russian embassy calling for Military help for Ukraine.

Wat.

[robkelk]

It took longer than I expected for the invasion to begin.

The west has called for sanctions. But what can we block? Russia is a net exporter of food, oil, natural gas, and weapons systems. Stock market delistings won't stop the military. And they already have nukes.

Okay, this just might work:
Ontario tells LCBO to pull all Russian-made products from store shelves

(While one can purchase beer and wine in grocery stores in Ontario, the LCBO - Liquor Control Board of Ontario - is the only legal source of hard liquor. in the province)

[Labster]

Ukrainian man offers to tow enemy tank back to Russia after it runs out of fuel

Oh yes, there is video.

I am starting to think Ukraine can win this war. Their morale is far higher, and Russian equipment and coordination seem to be far worse than originally thought. Plus Russia seems to be losing allies pretty fast -- Moldova, Czechia, and Hungary have all imposed sanctions, and seem to be genuinely surprised that Russia actually invaded. Also American intelligence seems to work a thousand times better on the Russian state than it does on terrorists living in caves, which while it isn't surprising, it is useful.

Russian Warship, go fuck yourself!

[Black Aeronaut]

Normally I would say that I'm not surprised...

...But honestly, I kinda am.

I originally thought that the dilapidation that seems so characteristic of modern Russia was only the rotting carcass of the Cold War - something that had been shed like an old skin and simply left lying around.

But I guess I was wrong about that.

Putin wants the USSR back. Even if it cannot really be called the USSR again. This is pretty obvious from the way he's been targeting formerly communist states. But all he seems to be getting now is a shambling zombie haphazardly raised from its grave.

[Dartz]

Putin reminds everyone he has The Button

**Concern**

[Jinx999]

In lighter news, the horrors of war.

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-blameless-...WapQCvDzBe

[Black Aeronaut]

Putin reminds everyone he has The Button

**Concern**

Okay, now I'm wondering if he's seriously lost his goddamned mind, or if he's just trying to take a page out of North Korea's playbook.

I really hope that our ballistic missile defense system is up to the task if push comes to shove.

[Dartz]

A summary of the last day -- what I think happened while I was at work.


--Peace talks at Chernobyl. Ukraine acting like they're winning, because----
--Youtube videos on how to drive the abandoned Russian tank in your garden.
--More abandoned russian vehicles - like they'll still be there when we get back.
--Ukraine's ambassador to the UN telling Putin to become An Hero (In a more diplomatic way)
--Russian troops parking at the side of the road waiting for the bombs to drop while they take a piss.
--Loosing so many trucks you're grabbing things - anything - from the local carpark and spraypainting a white Z on them
--Releasing a news report extolling your glorious victory, how you decapitated the enemy leader and created a multi-polar world and a United Russia
--Quickly recalling that canned news report because Fuck, we forgot to turn off auto-post and now it's not going like that at all....
--Take more casualties in 4 days, that 2 x 20 years on America in Afghanistan, or 1 x 20 years of America in Iraq
--Communicating on an open radio frequency which everyone can listen to. Or on mobile phone to try and figure out what the fuck is going on
--Randomers driving up to you and lobbing petrol bombs at you
--The entirety of the EU being, like, FUCK YOU, blank cheque send all the fucking weapons. One thinks they waited a day or two to see if Ukraine just imploded like an Italian rugby team before deciding it was worth opening the chequebook
--I thought Brexit and the British pissed the EU off, but holy fuck it's like the fucking worm turned and went rabid
--EU openly admitting to providing Satellite intelligence to Ukraine
--FIFA kicking Russia our of everything. Because even those stockings of shite know which way the wind is blowing.
--America being this weird sort of smugly quiet

What the fuck is happening? Which one of these countries is led by a comedian again? Will the history book be ghostwritten by Tom Clancy?

[Bob Schroeck]

The Ukrainians have been tearing down all their traffic signs to inconvenience the invaders, and the electronic ones all read "Fuck you" in Russian...

[Dartz]

I had the amusing idea that somewhere in Fenspace or some meta continuity some's added the 'Russian Warship Go Fuck Yourself' to the fleet roster.


I'm far more excited by this than I probably should be. I've been sharing bits of Ukrainian information in some places to make it a little easier for people to talk to their local politicians about it.

[hazard]

Regarding the EU deciding 'fuck Russia'?

They think Great Britain is just being stupid and playing nice will keep the door to a readmittance under much worse conditions open for what remains of the nation. They've concluded that the only possible way to deal with Russia is by breaking it, because at least for as long as Putin is in charge, the only option is violence.

Not 'violence or submission'. Violence. Because there is no way even after submitting Russia won't commit violence upon them.

[Jinx999]

There are two separate videos I've seen of Ukranians hitching tractors (the two tractors are different colours) to Russian military vehicles and dragging them away.

I don't think anyone knows exactly what's going on.

I get the impression that Putin honestly expected the Russian troops to be welcomed as liberators while the West fumed impotently and imposed some desultory penalty.

He's definitely not going to achieve his intended victory.

He might be able to occupy the bombed flat land inhabited by people who hate his guts and will require a constant massive occupation force.

Which would only be considered a victory in a very technical sense.