All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXV

[Bob Schroeck]

I always hesitate to declare if we do or don't have a given trope. Less than a day ago I started writing a trope for "Roll on the Floor Laughing" -- then discovered while looking for appropriate categories that we had it already under the name "Laugh Themselves Sick". And it's not the first time -- I once got a trope through the workshop and into the wiki at large before anyone realized it duplicated an existing one, a few years back. I ended up merging them.

Anyway, go ahead, propose. If someone notices it's a dupe, they'll let you know. If you get it through and it turns out to be a dupe, we'll merge them. No penalty except a little embarrassment.

[Umbire]

I always hesitate to declare if we do or don't have a given trope.  Less than a day ago I started writing a trope for "Roll on the Floor Laughing" -- then discovered while looking for appropriate categories that we had it already under the name "Laugh Themselves Sick".  And it's not the first time -- I once got a trope through the workshop and into the wiki at large before anyone realized it duplicated an existing one, a few years back.  I ended up merging them.

Anyway, go ahead, propose.  If someone notices it's a dupe, they'll let you know.  If you get it through and it turns out to be a dupe, we'll merge them.  No penalty except a little embarrassment.

I remember seeing that, too - fair enough!

[Umbire]

I always hesitate to declare if we do or don't have a given trope.  Less than a day ago I started writing a trope for "Roll on the Floor Laughing" -- then discovered while looking for appropriate categories that we had it already under the name "Laugh Themselves Sick".  And it's not the first time -- I once got a trope through the workshop and into the wiki at large before anyone realized it duplicated an existing one, a few years back.  I ended up merging them.

Anyway, go ahead, propose.  If someone notices it's a dupe, they'll let you know.  If you get it through and it turns out to be a dupe, we'll merge them.  No penalty except a little embarrassment.

Fair enough!

And it's up!

[robkelk]

Just under the wire...

I finally got fed up with the lack of progress being made to reduce the number of candidates in the Trope Workshop, and proposed an idea that I'd mentioned to Bob a while back in passing: Fifteen trope candidates, maximum.

This is a major change to the Trope Workshop, so I intend to give this one at least a week of debate. (If trope candidates are launched and not replaced during that week, so much the better - the intent is to get the number of trope candidates down, and that works.)

[GethN7]

Just under the wire...

I finally got fed up with the lack of progress being made to reduce the number of candidates in the Trope Workshop, and proposed an idea that I'd mentioned to Bob a while back in passing: Fifteen trope candidates, maximum.

This is a major change to the Trope Workshop, so I intend to give this one at least a week of debate. (If trope candidates are launched and not replaced during that week, so much the better - the intent is to get the number of trope candidates down, and that works.)

I just put in my two cents on some of those, will try to help prune the list for any that have outstanding questions on them.

[robkelk]

The proposal has certainly created a lot of discussion... which is a good thing.

[classicdrogn]

I'm not really hip to wiki jive, but I have noticed that people tend to call kanji and to a lesser extent other pictogram based scripts 'moon runes.' Well, I don't know if (and doubt) it's the first example, but the 1989 anime Madou King Granzort featured actual moon-people pictograms in its first episode. Here's a screenshot:



If it matters at all, this is apparently a spell to be cast over a potion for 'stewing' magical weapons as the final step in creating the protagonist MacGuffins for the series.

One of which is a top, as in the spinning toy, which grants water powers. Because whirlpools I guess? 80s anime were weird.

Wikipedia page for MKG:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad%C3%B6_...nz%C3%B6rt

[Labster]

I am really starting to worry about Miraheze.  I know the situation has stabilized for now, but after a truly lackluster incident report, I'm starting to lose confidence.  I raised my concerns about it over a week ago, including the lack of regular feedback and no finding on whether the outage was preventable, and there hasn't been any response.  If there really was nothing to be learned and no actions to be taken after a week-long outage, I think we need to make sure we're getting regular backups, in case the worst happens.

[robkelk]

Just under the wire...

I finally got fed up with the lack of progress being made to reduce the number of candidates in the Trope Workshop, and proposed an idea that I'd mentioned to Bob a while back in passing: Fifteen trope candidates, maximum.

This is a major change to the Trope Workshop, so I intend to give this one at least a week of debate. (If trope candidates are launched and not replaced during that week, so much the better - the intent is to get the number of trope candidates down, and that works.)

Oh, look - it's now two days after proposing a hard cap of 15 trope candidates, and the number of trope candidates has dropped from 28 to 17.

More significantly, the number of identified trope stubs that we inherited from TV Tropes is now down to three. (And if somebody keeps entry-pimping "Heartbreaking in Hindsight", we can get that down to two.)

[robkelk]

I am really starting to worry about Miraheze.  I know the situation has stabilized for now, but after a truly lackluster incident report, I'm starting to lose confidence.  I raised my concerns about it over a week ago, including the lack of regular feedback and no finding on whether the outage was preventable, and there hasn't been any response.  If there really was nothing to be learned and no actions to be taken after a week-long outage, I think we need to make sure we're getting regular backups, in case the worst happens.

Just read that Incident Report early draft. If I submitted something like this to my boss, I'd be asked by her boss' boss when the real report will be finished.

I am extremely tempted to enter this as a Phabricator task

The Incident Report at https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:I...Reports/51 regarding the recent 11388-minute outage (Down to Up) says "Gluster has not been really been fined tuned for our setup so probably made things worse."

This is the only thing identified in the incident report as being a possible contributing factor (although for some reason it was not labelled as such).

Please fine-tune Gluster, so that the next such outage (Down to Up) does not last for 7.9+ days.

But perhaps that should come from somebody with a good working relationship with the techs.

[Umbire]

Just under the wire...

I finally got fed up with the lack of progress being made to reduce the number of candidates in the Trope Workshop, and proposed an idea that I'd mentioned to Bob a while back in passing: Fifteen trope candidates, maximum.

This is a major change to the Trope Workshop, so I intend to give this one at least a week of debate. (If trope candidates are launched and not replaced during that week, so much the better - the intent is to get the number of trope candidates down, and that works.)

Oh, look - it's now two days after proposing a hard cap of 15 trope candidates, and the number of trope candidates has dropped from 28 to 17.

More significantly, the number of identified trope stubs that we inherited from TV Tropes is now down to three. (And if somebody keeps entry-pimping "Heartbreaking in Hindsight", we can get that down to two.)

Like I said, you didn't need the proposal to pass - you lit enough of a fire under folks already. :B

[Bob Schroeck]

Definitely let them know.

What they do with the information is up to them, but they can't act on what they don't know.

I'll do the needful.

Did you ever hear anything back? I just checked and the image is still there.

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm not really hip to wiki jive, but I have noticed that people tend to call kanji and to a lesser extent other pictogram based scripts 'moon runes.' Well, I don't know if (and doubt) it's the first example, but the 1989 anime Madou King Granzort featured actual moon-people pictograms in its first episode. Here's a screenshot:

That's a great image... but I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Is there a particular trope you had in mind that it might be used to illustrate?

[robkelk]

I'm not really hip to wiki jive, but I have noticed that people tend to call kanji and to a lesser extent other pictogram based scripts 'moon runes.' Well, I don't know if (and doubt) it's the first example, but the 1989 anime Madou King Granzort featured actual moon-people pictograms in its first episode. Here's a screenshot:

That's a great image... but I'm not sure what you're suggesting.  Is there a particular trope you had in mind that it might be used to illustrate?

If it's intended to be used as an alternative to the English alphabet, the image could be used on Wingdinglish

[Bob Schroeck]

Do we have any kind of trope for someone getting first billing among alleged equals? The result looks like the band name format "x and the ys" but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with music -- for instance, "Leo Gorcey and Bowery Boys".

[Umbire]

HornyLikeIAmA14YearOldGirl is at it again, posting what reads like he's declaring a wiki policy.

I commented.

The retcon he's referring to is rather divisive and a clear localization-based one, and while as a fan of the Guilty Gear series it is somewhat asinine and jarring given prior canon, I told him to keep his seethe under contorl.

The way I see it, no matter how stupid we find something, we can have private disgust for it, but so long as he does not let his disgust leak into the statement of objective fact, no matter how cringe or not it may be, he can whine all he likes, but we will not pretend said localization did not happen. We will make clear the fact it is a localization change and compared the original translation for clarity, but he can keep his seethe to the talk page so long as he does not make any attempt to rewrite history he disagrees with on the article pages.

If he proves defiant, then he should be disciplined.

Edit: Seems this was sorted out. Horny did bring up a legitimate reason for concern I cannot dispute. TV Tropes is notorious for pretending certain history did not happen if latter history agrees with their contemporary majority's feeling on the issue, and he was concerned we would follow suit, regardless of discrepancies. In the interests of honesty and acknowledging clashing canonical information, I believe it is reasonable to mention such discrepancies (in this case, a character who had been regarded as male is now called a female, despite prior canon information to the contrary), but we do so while leaving our personal feelings out of it, we simply state the varying facts between the periods of canon in question.

I've been looking into this, and it looks like there was a significant bit of info or two left out - I've posted what I found in the relevant thread.

[robkelk]

Thanks, Umbrie. It looks like the character page needs cleanup to remove the claims of ambiguity...

[Umbire]

Thanks, Umbrie. It looks like the character page needs cleanup to remove the claims of ambiguity...

Provided in kind - though I also feel like there should be something said about the way that ambiguity was introduced in the first place...

Not to mention it's a product of an ongoing adverse reaction born of out-and-out Fan Dumb - classic case of "canon changed in a way I didn't like so I refuse to acknowledge it".

[GethN7]

Thanks, Umbrie. It looks like the character page needs cleanup to remove the claims of ambiguity...

Provided in kind - though I also feel like there should be something said about the way that ambiguity was introduced in the first place...

Not to mention it's a product of an ongoing adverse reaction born of out-and-out Fan Dumb - classic case of "canon changed in a way I didn't like so I refuse to acknowledge it".

I see. I commented, and it looks like, based on this information you provided, we should revise our current content to reflect it.

[robkelk]

We are now down to 14 trope candidates in the Trope Workshop.

As promised, I made a random list of the trope candidates in tropers' sandboxes. One issue: The first (and third) on that list are by Umbrie, who already has three candidates in the workshop. And that means I can't just move "Word Salad Horror" to the workshop without breaking the three-candidates-per-troper rule.

The second is by Beta Log 86... who makes one edit a month. But I'll ask whether that troper's candidate is ready for the Trope Workshop process.

EDIT: And asked on the troper's User talk page.

If the reply is "no", then the next (and final) ur-candidate on the list is one of Bob's: "Thirty Pieces of Silver". Assuming we actually pass that new rule, which is currently sitting at two "aye", two "nay", and one abstention.

[Umbire]

We are now down to 14 trope candidates in the Trope Workshop.

As promised, I made a random list of the trope candidates in tropers' sandboxes. One issue: The first (and third) on that list are by Umbrie, who already has three candidates in the workshop. And that means I can't just move "Word Salad Horror" to the workshop without breaking the three-candidates-per-troper rule.

The second is by Beta Log 86... who makes one edit a month. But I'll ask whether that troper's candidate is ready for the Trope Workshop process.

EDIT: And asked on the troper's User talk page.

If the reply is "no", then the next (and final) ur-candidate on the list is one of Bob's: "Thirty Pieces of Silver". Assuming we actually pass that new rule, which is currently sitting at two "aye", two "nay", and one abstention.

It's gonna be a while before I can focus on the sandboxed candidates, and that's mostly because we're worrying about currently workshopped ones... that, and I do plan to make that part of my userspace more "musing about tropes" rather than starting candidates there outright. Aside from feeling like it flouts certain guidelines, those need my attention to make any real progress, and it being a userspace thing kinda stymies that - if I end up focused on another little project, as I am wont to do, then it's kinda just... there in the meantime.

But ultimately, what I do with those depends on your plan for people's userspace stuff.

[robkelk]

Do we have a trope for "game master's girlfriend" (or maybe something broader that includes it, such as "producer's girlfriend")? Because the latest Sequential Art fits it.

[GethN7]

Do we have a trope for "game master's girlfriend" (or maybe something broader that includes it, such as "producer's girlfriend")? Because the latest Sequential Art fits it.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Dungeonmas...Girlfriend

[robkelk]

Do we have a trope for "game master's girlfriend" (or maybe something broader that includes it, such as "producer's girlfriend")? Because the latest Sequential Art fits it.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Dungeonmas...Girlfriend

Thanks, Geth.

(Specific name, not generic name... but that's what redirects are for.)

[Bob Schroeck]

Do we have any kind of trope for someone getting first billing among alleged equals?  The result looks like the band name format "x and the ys" but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with music -- for instance, "Leo Gorcey and Bowery Boys".

While I'm asking about tropes, here's one I'm sure we must have, although I'll be damned if I can find it: A character or group of characters are in need of more cash than they can realistically get their hands on. However, coincidentally there is at the same time a competition or challenge of some sort going on which with a cash prize at least equal to and often more than they need. They join the competition with the intent of winning the prize, usually by way of a Zany Scheme.

Does that ring a bell for anyone?