All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXVII

[Bob Schroeck]

"Best known for/from/in"?

Where they (mostly) work out of -- Hollywood, Bollywood, British film, Broadway, West End?

[Bob Schroeck]

Heads up, folks. We have an asshole with a grudge against one (or more?) of our users posting abusive stuff on users' talk pages, and who just tried to replace A New Hope/Trivia with his crap. He's used two accounts so far, both basically strings of keyboard mashing: Okjghegoeihogjrepigijorejhgh and Hgoirehoigrheoigojhregjhrth. I've deleted his stuff on Buzzfan120 and TheNintendoGuy9009's talk pages, and I was able to mark Okjghegoeihogjrepigijorejhgh as a spammer, but it looks like this guy is going to try to turn our wiki into his personal grievance board if we don't stomp him hard and fast.

[robkelk]

They've already been globally blocked on Miraheze, both with the reason "SobySobea sockpuppet".

No worries. The CVT or the Stewards are way ahead of us.

[robkelk]

We have "Bodyguard Babes".
We have "Bodyguard Betrayal".
We have "Bodyguard Crush".
We have "Bodyguarding a Badass".
We have "Guardian Angel".
We have "Guardian Entity".

Why do we not have "Bodyguard" or "Guardian" as a trope? (Our page "Yojimbo" is about the movie.)

I discovered this when I wanted to pothole "Security Police" to the trope on the "SP" disambiguation page, and couldn't find it. Before I starting writing a trope candidate, I thought it wise to ask: do we have it under some esoteric TVT name?

[robkelk]

We have "Bodyguard Babes".
We have "Bodyguard Betrayal".
We have "Bodyguard Crush".
We have "Bodyguarding a Badass".
We have "Guardian Angel".
We have "Guardian Entity".

Why do we not have "Bodyguard" or "Guardian" as a trope? (Our page "Yojimbo" is about the movie.)

I discovered this when I wanted to pothole "Security Police" to the trope on the "SP" disambiguation page, and couldn't find it. Before I starting writing a trope candidate, I thought it wise to ask: do we have it under some esoteric TVT name?

Meh, I started a Trope Candidate anyway. Only sixteen examples and two categories, but I did find a decent image on Commons.

[Bob Schroeck]

I was going to say I didn't think we had a suitable supertrope, but looks like that's being rectified. <grin>

[robkelk]

It's been nearly 18 months since I tagged "Category:Live-Action TV" as needing a description. Not a better description, a description of some sort. ATT doesn't have one anywhere.

Should we just delete it as a zero-content page?

Yes, I know that if we delete it, a large part of the wiki falls apart. But it's been over a year, and I can't write everything...

[GethN7]

It's been nearly 18 months since I tagged "Category:Live-Action TV" as needing a description. Not a better description, a description of some sort. ATT doesn't have one anywhere.

Should we just delete it as a zero-content page?

Yes, I know that if we delete it, a large part of the wiki falls apart. But it's been over a year, and I can't write everything...

I added a basic description, feel free to flesh it out.

[robkelk]

It's been nearly 18 months since I tagged "Category:Live-Action TV" as needing a description. Not a better description, a description of some sort. ATT doesn't have one anywhere.

Should we just delete it as a zero-content page?

Yes, I know that if we delete it, a large part of the wiki falls apart. But it's been over a year, and I can't write everything...

I added a basic description, feel free to flesh it out.

Thanks, Geth. I caught one typo and put the first title drop in boldface, but didn't change anything else.

[robkelk]

Bad news, folks... Bot runs do something bad to the database, and generate false-positive results in DPL lists.

Evidence: Both this list and this list were down to a couple-dozen pages before somebody did a bot run. Now they're so long that they overflow the DPL lists.

I propose that we not allow bot runs at all unless there's an emergency that needs to be fixed immediately (as in "the wiki has been served with a court order" immediately)... and, even then, somebody needs to go in afterwards and manually edit every page touched by the bot run so that the database is updated correctly.

[GethN7]

Bad news, folks... Bot runs do something bad to the database, and generate false-positive results in DPL lists.

Evidence: Both this list and this list were down to a couple-dozen pages before somebody did a bot run. Now they're so long that they overflow the DPL lists.

I propose that we not allow bot runs at all unless there's an emergency that needs to be fixed immediately (as in "the wiki has been served with a court order" immediately)... and, even then, somebody needs to go in afterwards and manually edit every page touched by the bot run so that the database is updated correctly.

Not the fault of the bot jobbing.

What we have is the templates applying the correct category on a backend level, which saves valuable processing cycles as opposed to manual place, as we bundle it in the templates for those specific pages

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...artwarming

This puts the appropriate CSS in the background to display the page appropriately, and if you check the bottom of the template in edit view, it includes the proper category when said CSS is applied as well. I suggest looking for all pages that link to the Heartwarming Template if you want more accurate results. Same for Nightmare Fuel or any other page we use the backend template load method for.

[robkelk]

Bad news, folks... Bot runs do something bad to the database, and generate false-positive results in DPL lists.

Evidence: Both this list and this list were down to a couple-dozen pages before somebody did a bot run. Now they're so long that they overflow the DPL lists.

I propose that we not allow bot runs at all unless there's an emergency that needs to be fixed immediately (as in "the wiki has been served with a court order" immediately)... and, even then, somebody needs to go in afterwards and manually edit every page touched by the bot run so that the database is updated correctly.

Not the fault of the bot jobbing.

What we have is the templates applying the correct category on a backend level, which saves valuable processing cycles as opposed to manual place, as we bundle it in the templates for those specific pages

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...artwarming

This puts the appropriate CSS in the background to display the page appropriately, and if you check the bottom of the template in edit view, it includes the proper category when said CSS is applied as well. I suggest looking for all pages that link to the Heartwarming Template if you want more accurate results. Same for Nightmare Fuel or any other page we use the backend template load method for.

Aw, for...

The lists of pages that do use the templates are useless for determining which pages need the templates. The whole point to the lists is that they show which pages d not link to templates that they should link to. That suggestion won't work.

[GethN7]

Bad news, folks... Bot runs do something bad to the database, and generate false-positive results in DPL lists.

Evidence: Both this list and this list were down to a couple-dozen pages before somebody did a bot run. Now they're so long that they overflow the DPL lists.

I propose that we not allow bot runs at all unless there's an emergency that needs to be fixed immediately (as in "the wiki has been served with a court order" immediately)... and, even then, somebody needs to go in afterwards and manually edit every page touched by the bot run so that the database is updated correctly.

Not the fault of the bot jobbing.

What we have is the templates applying the correct category on a backend level, which saves valuable processing cycles as opposed to manual place, as we bundle it in the templates for those specific pages

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...artwarming

This puts the appropriate CSS in the background to display the page appropriately, and if you check the bottom of the template in edit view, it includes the proper category when said CSS is applied as well. I suggest looking for all pages that link to the Heartwarming Template if you want more accurate results. Same for Nightmare Fuel or any other page we use the backend template load method for.

Aw, for...

The lists of pages that do use the templates are useless for determining which pages need the templates. The whole point to the lists is that they show which pages d not link to templates that they should link to. That suggestion won't work.

Well, not sure what to tell you. If we manually linked the category on every single page, the backend would have to cache a record on every page load. By having a template do the job, it merely needs to load the template once into memory, which makes pages load faster. MediaWiki uses a MySQL/MariaDB backend, and doing everything you can to keep the database calls down keeps page loads fast.

[Bob Schroeck]

Hey, Rob, I've been looking at the stuff you've been doing this afternoon, and I think a lot of the pages you've tagged with "trope needs examples" might be better served as just noting that they're a definition page that doesn't get examples. We have sufficient precedent for that.

[robkelk]

Bad news, folks... Bot runs do something bad to the database, and generate false-positive results in DPL lists.

Evidence: Both this list and this list were down to a couple-dozen pages before somebody did a bot run. Now they're so long that they overflow the DPL lists.

I propose that we not allow bot runs at all unless there's an emergency that needs to be fixed immediately (as in "the wiki has been served with a court order" immediately)... and, even then, somebody needs to go in afterwards and manually edit every page touched by the bot run so that the database is updated correctly.

Not the fault of the bot jobbing.

What we have is the templates applying the correct category on a backend level, which saves valuable processing cycles as opposed to manual place, as we bundle it in the templates for those specific pages

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...artwarming

This puts the appropriate CSS in the background to display the page appropriately, and if you check the bottom of the template in edit view, it includes the proper category when said CSS is applied as well. I suggest looking for all pages that link to the Heartwarming Template if you want more accurate results. Same for Nightmare Fuel or any other page we use the backend template load method for.

Re-reading this...

That isn't what's happening. All I'm doing is making a miscellaneous edit to the pages in order to get the categories to actually apply to the page. I'm not defining them manually, and I don't want to define them manually - that goes against all of the automation that I've been adding to the wiki over the years.

Somehow, categories that existed are were previously being read by DPL are no longer being read by DPL. The templates were on the pages and remain on the pages. Why do I need to edit the page in order to get them to show up?

Hey, Rob, I've been looking at the stuff you've been doing this afternoon, and I think a lot of the pages you've tagged with "trope needs examples" might be better served as just noting that they're a definition page that doesn't get examples. We have sufficient precedent for that.

This is related - all I did was add a category to an existing tag. The pages didn't show up in the category until after manual edits of the pages... which should not have been necessary.

If this is "applying the correct category on a backend level", then the backend needs to communicate with the frontend.

[GethN7]

Bad news, folks... Bot runs do something bad to the database, and generate false-positive results in DPL lists.

Evidence: Both this list and this list were down to a couple-dozen pages before somebody did a bot run. Now they're so long that they overflow the DPL lists.

I propose that we not allow bot runs at all unless there's an emergency that needs to be fixed immediately (as in "the wiki has been served with a court order" immediately)... and, even then, somebody needs to go in afterwards and manually edit every page touched by the bot run so that the database is updated correctly.

Not the fault of the bot jobbing.

What we have is the templates applying the correct category on a backend level, which saves valuable processing cycles as opposed to manual place, as we bundle it in the templates for those specific pages

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?tit...artwarming

This puts the appropriate CSS in the background to display the page appropriately, and if you check the bottom of the template in edit view, it includes the proper category when said CSS is applied as well. I suggest looking for all pages that link to the Heartwarming Template if you want more accurate results. Same for Nightmare Fuel or any other page we use the backend template load method for.

Re-reading this...

That isn't what's happening. All I'm doing is making a miscellaneous edit to the pages in order to get the categories to actually apply to the page. I'm not defining them manually, and I don't want to define them manually - that goes against all of the automation that I've been adding to the wiki over the years.

Somehow, categories that existed are were previously being read by DPL are no longer being read by DPL. The templates were on the pages and remain on the pages. Why do I need to edit the page in order to get them to show up?

Hey, Rob, I've been looking at the stuff you've been doing this afternoon, and I think a lot of the pages you've tagged with "trope needs examples" might be better served as just noting that they're a definition page that doesn't get examples.  We have sufficient precedent for that.

This is related - all I did was add a category to an existing tag. The pages didn't show up in the category until after manual edits of the pages... which should not have been necessary.

If this is "applying the correct category on a backend level", then the backend needs to communicate with the frontend.

Then that sounds like a DPL regression, not a problem we can fix. If DPL was reading this fine, then it broke, DPL is broke.

[robkelk]

Now that I know we can do this, I am tempted to go into "Manage this wiki's extensions", select the "Editors" tab, and clear the checkmark beside "VisualEditor".

If anybody needs to know why, I seem to recall that Bob has a list of complaints about VisualEditor.

But I think maybe this is something we should (1) check on the private wiki whether it does what we expect, and (2) check with the Tropers whether anybody would be seriously inconvenienced if it does what I expect it does.

[robkelk]

Did anybody know that Pinky and The Brain/Characters is the official example of Extension:HideSection on the MediaWiki wiki?

I guess we should put some effort into making the page look really good... I've just made all the images no wider than 350 pixels, and replaced the vertical lines between the descriptions and trope lists with the "tropelist" header. Now all the page needs is some actual content; four characters don't have descriptions at all, and most of the other character descriptions are somewhat anemic.

[robkelk]

It's been a couple of months since Coffee Lover became a troper at ATT. Is it time to give them the autopatrolled bit?

I've left a bunch of pending edits in the moderation queue so that people can get a good feel for their edits' quality.

[Bob Schroeck]

I've already been thinking along those lines, so yeah, I think so.

[Bob Schroeck]

In other news, while doing a quick DDG search to find an ATT page faster than going to ATT and searching, a Reddit thread about the difference between TVT and ATT caught my eye.  So I checked it out.  At the bottom was this:

   

Represent, sisters.

[robkelk]

I know there's a trope here, but I don't know which one. It's something bilingual, obviously, but what?

[Mamorien]

I know there's a trope here, but I don't know which one. It's something bilingual, obviously, but what?

I think it's something related to false cognate.

[Bob Schroeck]

Over the past several weeks I've been watching Just a 1itt1e bit further's edits carefully. He's been making often-substantial changes to pages but in general I've more or less agreed with him (although the diplomacy of his edit reasons often leaves something to be desired). However the largest part of this one rubs me wrong. I am inclined to revert it, but I wanted other opinions before I go ahead.

[GethN7]

Over the past several weeks I've been watching Just a 1itt1e bit further's edits carefully.  He's been making often-substantial changes to pages but in general I've more or less agreed with him (although the diplomacy of his edit reasons often leaves something to be desired).  However the largest part of this one rubs me wrong.  I am inclined to revert it, but I wanted other opinions before I go ahead.

Revert. If we can be educational, that's a good thing.