All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXVIII

[robkelk]

Is anybody else getting repeated "504 Gateway Time-out" errors? I can't even reach the Main Page.

EDIT: I can reach Meta, so this isn't a Miraheze-wide thing. (Oh, and Meta isn't showing Commons images either -- somebody who isn't at the office really should file a Phabricator ticket about that.)

[robkelk]

Wiki's back.

[robkelk]

Refresh my memory, please: When we have works subpages under tropes and trope subpages under works for the same trope, which do we keep and which do we correct?

For example: "Fridge Horror/Western Animation/My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic" and "Adventure Time/Fridge".

[Bob Schroeck]

Work/Trope. The other is a leftover from TVT's bass-ackwards namespacing that we've never completely cleaned up.

[Bob Schroeck]

Can someone else please look at this edit in the mod queue? It seems to me that the editor ("Brazilian User") is inserting take thats at the US. And the inserted passage about nation size somehow seems like it boils down to "If it weren't for Alaska the US would be smaller than my home nation. So there." I've been stalling on deciding this one for the weekend, as I'm not sure how to take the changes, or even if they deserve rejection despite what looks like anti-US chauvinism.

[robkelk]

I've been stalled on that one for just as long. If two mods (one from the USA, one from the Commonwealth) aren't sure whether an edit to the page about the USA should happen, then it's probably a low-quality edit.

[Bob Schroeck]

In that case, reject it with or without explanation?

[robkelk]

We've accepted other edits from that troper; it would be polite to say why we're rejecting this one.

And I should be the one to reject it, since I'm the only active mod who is not from the USA.

[Bob Schroeck]

Fair enough, to both points.

[robkelk]

Well, I finally figured out how to phrase the rejection explanation.

Now I'm asking about the two changes that the same user has in the moderation queue, about Britain. Any concerns?

[Bob Schroeck]

I'll have to take a look.

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, looked them over.

The changes to "Britain" look okay to me, except the caption he adds to the image File:britain-map 139.gif. It needs some grammar work, but beyond that, it feels like a subtle "take that" in some way. (Outside of his changes, we have at least one reference to "The Queen" that needs updating.)

The changes to "Britain Versus the UK" also look okay to me, although they, too need some minor grammar fixes.

[GethN7]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a suggestion for a policy, but while I can offer advice on it since I'm active in this community, I must refrain from voting for bias reasons, but it's important enough we should cover it.

Now it's possible to produce AI art en masse, I believe we should have a policy on its use on ATT. I am an active user of the open-source software Stable Diffusion, and that community has some guidelines we would be wise to emulate IMO if we draw up similar policies.

My suggestions include:

1. All AI art submitted for pages must be clearly identified as such in it's description. Ideally, it should be submitted in it's original PNG format (this preserves all metadata for generated images in case of copyright issues, the tags and source data used for generation are saved inside the PNG)
2. Nothing depicting real people in NSFW situations or anything that is illegal by its very existence (i.e. - child pornography, libelous imagery, and so on, realistic or otherwise) will be tolerated. Clearly fictional images should also conform to all applicable laws and our site guidelines.
3. Non AI created images, if we have one that is more suitable, they should be given priority.

Those are just my takes, but given how this tech is out in the wild and the chances we'll get AI artwork or cover works with it in the future is high, I believe a policy going forward would be prudent.

[robkelk]

I've been lead to believe that Danbooru - who take everything in the way of anime-style images - outright ban AI images. We'd be more lenient than that with this policy.

Your section #1 aligns with our requirement to have licenses and request to include image histories with all image uploads.

Your section #2 matches Miraheze policy on NSFW matter. We can keep it for clarity, and for the more pedantic sort who need everything spelled out for them.

I like your section #3. The wiki's about patterns in storytelling and we already say the patterns are not the stories -- this is an extension of the same philosophy. We should be encouraging the use of AI as a tool, not as a replacement for human (or sentient-being) creativity.

[Bob Schroeck]

This sounds like a good policy. I think we should probably put it up for the wiki community to debate, refine, and ultimately ratify, but I see nothing wrong and much right in it.

I should note that we have one or two ai-produced images already; I remember posting a "much wow" acknowledgement to whoever it was who uploaded them.

[robkelk]

Has anybody read Lorna Doone? At least, I assume it's a book, but our page for the work doesn't even say that much.

Anybody up to writing a quick description of the work?

[robkelk]

Last month, we had a short period where images from Commons weren't loading. As I post this, images aren't loading unless they're from Commons. This just started a few minutes ago.

I'll give it a couple of hours before entering a Phabricator ticket, just in case this is unannounced maintenance.

This appears to be wiki-wide - it's also affecting ATT, Meta, and the freebie wiki now. Phabricator ticket T11432 filed.

[Bob Schroeck]

There was a point late last night when I briefly looked in on both ATT and the My Apartment Manager wiki. The former wasn't loading any style info, and the latter was all 503s.

[Bob Schroeck]

And, at least on the ManaChara wiki, images are back.

EDIT: Correction. Some images are back. While exploring what I could see, clicking on the link for an alternate size for the image File:Pat-c-rwby-alts.jpg got me this error message:

Error generating thumbnail
Error creating thumbnail: Unable to save thumbnail to destination

which suggests to me that we've run into a disk issue again.

I've put this up on the Phab ticket as well, in case it proves useful.

[Bob Schroeck]

Phabricator ticket T11432 filed.

Closed out as a duplicate of T11430 Problems with file storage.

[robkelk]

<deep sigh>

Looks like somebody created an account in order to remove a YMMV entry with no explanation. (see here for the edit.)

Do we have boilerplate text to post to the editor's Talk page, saying "no, ATT:1WAY says you can't do that without a good reason"?

[Bob Schroeck]

Not that I know of. However, you can point out that the brightly colored banner that appears on the edit page explicitly says not to delete things on YMMV pages, and since they ignored that explicit instruction to delete an entry anyway, the edit's not getting approved. And we're keeping an eye on them as a potential vandal.

[robkelk]

Thanks, Bob. Warning given.

[robkelk]

Phabricator ticket T11432 filed.

Closed out as a duplicate of T11430 Problems with file storage.

Since the issue was re-prioritized as "Unbreak Now!", I really shouldn't have had to ask when the global sitenotice was going to be posted... Well, it's posted now.

I hope that Miraheze USA will be a little more transparent in these matters than Miraheze UK has been in the past.

[robkelk]

Once again, All The Tropes has visual enhancement.

(Read: Images are back, and the Phabricator ticket is closed. I successfully made a test upload to the freebie wiki, too.)