2024 Election - Thread #1

[Dartz]

Put enough speed into a trashpile so it can lie for 90 minutes and Americans will vote for him, it seems.

Biden's always been a a bit Brain-outrunning-the-mouth. Indonthe same thing sometimes.

[Labster]

I'm not sure it's going to happen, but The New York Times editorial board called for Biden to step down... and also endorsed him in the event he doesn't step down, because Trump.  What a world.

Meanwhile the Chinese propaganda machine is having fun, saying that the debate is an example of how bad decadent Western Democracy has gotten... and they kind of have a point?

Put enough speed into a trashpile so it can lie for 90 minutes and Americans will vote for him, it seems.

Biden's always been a a bit Brain-outrunning-the-mouth. Indonthe same thing sometimes.

Yes, Biden has always been this way; he had a stutter as a kid, which has never fully gone away.

Jon Stewart called for both candidates to receive performance-enhancing drugs, because "this is not the Olympics".

His gaffes are leading the Canadian hourly news today, they were that bad. (I didn't watch the debate, either.)
Who would contest the nomination, though? If there are viable alternative candidates, we aren't hearing about them on this side of the border.

California's governor is a surrogate for Biden, talked about how great he is after the debate and all.  But I bet he bought a bunch of plane tickets to swing states last night.  Gavin Newsom has been running for President since he was mayor of SF.  The governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer, also comes to mind.

[Dartz]

Will be Biden be prosecuted if he dronestrikes a felonious foreign agent who has had access to critical intelligence information?

[nemonowan]

Will be Biden be prosecuted if he dronestrikes a felonious foreign agent who has had access to critical intelligence information?

Well, given that Trump's lawyers actually argued to the Supreme Court that the President could order  SEAL Team Six to kill a political opponent and that that would be covered by criminal immunity...

The question is if Biden and the Democrats would have the guts to start using and abusing that "immunity" and dare the Court and Congress to start passing laws and judgements to stop that insanity.

[classicdrogn]

I'm sure they'd decide on a case by case basis that doing so was indeed prosecutable. Most likely by a 6-3 ruling.

[Isodecan]

I'm sure they'd decide on a case by case basis that doing so was indeed prosecutable. Most likely by a 6-3 ruling.

Not at all, if it came to it the liberal justices would probably also rule it was outside of official acts.

That being said, under their ruling a President could have them executed.  Biden would never do that, but Trump holds grudges and all of them have at one point or another made rulings he didn't like.

[Labster]

It might be interesting if Biden were to issue an executive order for Seal Team Six to kill Trump effective after 30 days, just to see what the courts would make of it. Nothing more official than an executive order, right? Constitutional crisis for breakfast, anyone?

This is the same court that ruled last week that regulators don't have the authority to issue regulations when the law is vague, but somehow the President has all of these vague powers never seen in the constitution to be immune from all official acts. So I guess what the courts would make of it would be whatever the conservatives want.

I'm starting to think, for the first time in my life, that we might be better off if we replaced all of the elected officers and top judges in our country. Normally I think that experience matters, and it does, but what we have now seems less and less like a government, and more like a tribal vendetta.

[Isodecan]

On the other hand, if this survey is accurate then it may be possible to get a constitutional amendment if we can hold things together through the next election.  It is quite possible to make explicit that the President is not above the law, and while we are at it writing ethics rules for Supreme Court Justices with teeth and possibly term limits for people other than the President would be good idea.

[nemonowan]

On the other hand, if this survey is accurate then it may be possible to get a constitutional amendment if we can hold things together through the next election.  It is quite possible to make explicit that the President is not above the law, and while we are at it writing ethics rules for Supreme Court Justices with teeth and possibly term limits for people other than the President would be good idea.

Unfortunately the only way to achieve that would be my previous suggestion: That Biden uses his new "official acts" superpowers to guarantee his reelection (doing exactly the same coup that Trump tried to do and has now been effectively declared legal), get rid of Trump, of 5 or 6 Supreme Court justices, a quarter of the Congress, and blocking any attempts at opposing him except for an explicit decalration that he will support planning and passing such amendments.

Do you remember when was the last time right-wing nuts supported and passed second-amendment restrictions? It was when the Black Panthers followed the then-current law to the letter and started patrolling black neighborhoods with assult rifles to defend their people from police abuse. Once they found out that their laws could empower the target of their hate they changed them in a hurry.

[classicdrogn]

That seems a lot more drastic than I could see Biden going for, even if it might actually work as intended, and once you've made it to the oval office a career ending move is not so much of a sacrifice - there's no more up to go, the term limits are strict, and if Biden doesn't win it this time I really doubt he'd be up for a new run in four years, assuming there was enough America left in the United States to even hold elections by the end of a second Trump term.

[robkelk]

On the other hand, if this survey is accurate then it may be possible to get a constitutional amendment if we can hold things together through the next election.  It is quite possible to make explicit that the President is not above the law, and while we are at it writing ethics rules for Supreme Court Justices with teeth and possibly term limits for people other than the President would be good idea.

Unfortunately the only way to achieve that would be my previous suggestion: That Biden uses his new "official acts" superpowers to guarantee his reelection (doing exactly the same coup that Trump tried to do and has now been effectively declared legal), get rid of Trump, of 5 or 6 Supreme Court justices, a quarter of the Congress, and blocking any attempts at opposing him except for an explicit decalration that he will support planning and passing such amendments.

That isn't the only way to do it. You could have a constitutional convention to pass any number of constitutional amendments -- it specifically says so in your Constitution.

Yes, that would make obvious how united you currently aren't, but it's possible.

Do you remember when was the last time right-wing nuts supported and passed second-amendment restrictions? It was when the Black Panthers followed the then-current law to the letter and started patrolling black neighborhoods with assult rifles to defend their people from police abuse. Once they found out that their laws could empower the target of their hate they changed them in a hurry.

Considering that this particular court decision applies only to the POTUS, that isn't really an option this time around.

EDIT: And I'm thinking that, in the current political climate, "The Potus" would be a great name for a D&D monster. Or the villain in a Doctor Seuss pastiche.

[nemonowan]

That isn't the only way to do it. You could have a constitutional convention to pass any number of constitutional amendments -- it specifically says so in your Constitution.

Yes, that would make obvious how united you currently aren't, but it's possible.

Do you remember when was the last time right-wing nuts supported and passed second-amendment restrictions? It was when the Black Panthers followed the then-current law to the letter and started patrolling black neighborhoods with assult rifles to defend their people from police abuse. Once they found out that their laws could empower the target of their hate they changed them in a hurry.

Considering that this particular court decision applies only to the POTUS, that isn't really an option this time around.

I wasn't referring to the mechanisms by which the constitution might be changed, but the motivations to change it into a liberal non-dictatorial direction, given the current climate.
And a constitutional convention would be a bad idea since once it is convened they can write a whole new constitution and conservative states have the number advantage.

[nemonowan]

That seems a lot more drastic than I could see Biden going for, even if it might actually work as intended, and once you've made it to the oval office a career ending move is not so much of a sacrifice - there's no more up to go, the term limits are strict, and if Biden doesn't win it this time I really doubt he'd be up for a new run in four years, assuming there was enough America left in the United States to even hold elections by the end of a second Trump term.

Neither do I think he would do it, even if given his age and position he really has nothing to lose by taking the ultimate one for team America. He'd sooner quit the reelection bid and go home to wait for Trump's stormtroopers to come and arrest him.

And after this SC ruling, it doesn't matter if there are elections or not, the current president can invalidate them and remain in power until his death because its an "official act" and therefore immune from prosecution. And then his vice will assume and will be the next king president for life. Unless the military stage a rebellion and put some General in charge.

[robkelk]

... Unless the military stage a rebellion and put some General in charge.

Or enough of you remember what your Second Amendment is for.

[classicdrogn]

The problem is that nearly all Democrats and liberals in general are super pro- gun control, so not only are they not going to do any such thing, we won't be able to defend ourselves if the louder righties try it. Not that I think either side would have a whelk's chance in a supernova against the National Guard let alone the branches that need an act of Congress before deploying domestically, but small comfort to anyone caught up by it before the Guardies arrive. As for action along that line by the actual military, as a whole or by any significant rogue unit(s)... is there any historical precedent for that having a good result? Ever, anywhere? I can't think of any, but I'm far from being a history buff - my interest in militaria generally begins and ends at things that fly; the rest is vague memories of required credit courses from 20+ years ago.

[Isodecan]

The 2nd Amendment actually states: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.  It wasn't until Heller in 2008 that the Right-wing justices invented an individual right to bear arms although going back into the 70's there has been increasing pressure on making that come about (largely from the NRA and gun manufacturers).  Prior to that there were lots of gun regulations (including for example closing the machine gun registry or creating one in the first place).

[robkelk]

Yeah. It's that "a free State" part that I was thinking of.

[robkelk]

And in the other 2024 election...

To the surprise of nobody, U.K. Labour Party sweeps to power in historic election win, defeating Conservatives

[Jinx999]

And in the other 2024 election...

To the surprise of nobody, U.K. Labour Party sweeps to power in historic election win, defeating Conservatives

I'm mildly surprised the Conservatives got over 100 seats.

In context - they've lost over 2/3 of the previous seats, and they're still doing better than I expected.

[Labster]

Well, Kier Starmer and his Starmertroopers have sized Westminster and look like a competent government so far, which is a refreshing change. I think that it's worth pointing out that in addition to the Tories getting creamed, the Scottish National Party also lost nearly all of its seats (in Westminster, anyway), with most of the Lowlands going to Labour. The Liberal Democrats also expanded their share quite a bit -- but with Labour's majority being so large, not enough to be relevant. Sinn Fein is the biggest party from Northern Ireland now, which means fuck all because they never show up to vote. And to wrap things up, newspapers are looking into whether or not all of the Reform UK candidates are real people.

On to France, where the snap election there produced unclarity, with a leftist coalition coming out on top despite a surge in right populists. Also, being typical leftists, they don't even like to work with each other, they just hate the populists more. The right is very mad that the left is better at tactical voting than they are. With the coalitions having a rough approximation of one-third of the seats each, I'd not be surprised to see another election in the next few months.

Finally back to America, the great white hope. People are still trying to get Joe Biden to drop out of the race for US President. Basically the wings of the Democratic Party are thus:
-- Governors: all want to run for President in 2028, and don't want to run against Kamala Harris or wait until 2032. Generally not reelected in this next election. Therefore, support Biden.
-- Congressmen: scared shitless of losing on their down-ballot races. Want Biden to step aside yesterday
-- Senators: If running, quietly looking for Biden to step aside, otherwise keeping their traps shut

But then there's the biggest wing: the actors. Today, George Clooney came out and said that it's time for Joe Biden to step aside for the good of the country. It's Joever, folks. It's so Joever. I mean, Clooney? There's just no way.

Meanwhile my own opinion is that the executive is working mostly fine, and I'd vote for a literal mushroom over Donald Trump. As long as the Cabinet is pretty stable, they can continue to keep doing the things they're doing. But I'd go along with anything really at this point. The party needs to decide, because this is not a good look.

[nemonowan]

On to France, where the snap election there produced unclarity, with a leftist coalition coming out on top despite a surge in right populists.  Also, being typical leftists, they don't even like to work with each other, they just hate the populists more.  The right is very mad that the left is better at tactical voting than they are.  With the coalitions having a rough approximation of one-third of the seats each, I'd not be surprised to see another election in the next few months.

Maybe sooner that you think. 
Macron is breaking tradition and refusing to nominate a new Prime Minister from the candidates that NFP submitted. He instead has left his old PM in place and is calling for a new "mainstream coalition" to form (around his own party) and submit a new PM (from his own party). And his main allies are saying that there is no rush to name a new PM and that it can wait until September after the Olympic Games have passed.

[Dartz]

Well.

I'm not sure what's worse.

That someone tried.

Or that they failed.

The first is already dangerous. The second comes with all the attendant consequences of the first - along with galvanising his supporters and garnering a shitton of sympathy.

[Labster]

Don’t worry, Trump is as smart as a bull moose.

[classicdrogn]

Don't let the moose hear you say that. They'll be insulted, and moose are big, scary mofos.

[classicdrogn]

Oh, huh. Somebody tried to shoot Trump yesterday. Just a week after that Republicrim Lt. Governor running for I-forget-what was up on stage and shouting about how "Some folks need killin'!" Bet it sounded like a great idea until it was their guy.

Trump's fine by the way, got his ear clipped but nothing more than a streak of blood on him. One of the other attendees died and two more with gunshot wounds last I heard, probably plus plus however many tripped or got knocked into something while evacuating.

edit: Actually, no. I'm not going to pretend to be upset about this, just disappointed it failed. The shooter died instead, but that's not something you do without deciding your life is worth the attempt, and at least he managed to get above zero so better than the majority of human lives.