All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXXI

[robkelk]

I hope I'm not the only one who got this, but just in case...

From: Miraheze Meta <noreply@miraheze.org>
Date: Sun, Mar 16, 2025, 22:00
Subject: Notification regarding the custom domain for your wiki
To: Robkelk [email redacted]


Hello,
This email is to notify you that we will cease offering DNS hosting for custom domains on May 16th, 2025. If you would like your custom domain to continue functioning, you will need to follow the steps laid out on https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T13309 by that date. If you do not do this, your custom domain will stop working after May 16th. We appreciate your cooperation and understanding.
Sincerely,
Miraheze Technology Team

[GethN7]

I hope I'm not the only one who got this, but just in case...

From: Miraheze Meta <noreply@miraheze.org>
Date: Sun, Mar 16, 2025, 22:00
Subject: Notification regarding the custom domain for your wiki
To: Robkelk [email redacted]


Hello,
This email is to notify you that we will cease offering DNS hosting for custom domains on May 16th, 2025. If you would like your custom domain to continue functioning, you will need to follow the steps laid out on https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T13309 by that date. If you do not do this, your custom domain will stop working after May 16th. We appreciate your cooperation and understanding.
Sincerely,
Miraheze Technology Team

I got it too. I suggest we address this as soon as possible.

[robkelk]

Wow, the Lint Error estimates are off. As of this posting:

"Missing end tag" estimate: 11,609
"Missing end tag" actual: 3,179

As of this posting:
"Missing end tag" estimate: 11,397
"Missing end tag" actual: 3,000 (yes, it's a milestone number)

Not only is the estimate way off, it doesn't keep pace with the work being done, either proportionately or absolutely.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

I haven't yet; I noticed something.  As it turns out, DarkMatterMan4500 has been a member of the wiki since before the Moderation system (by a few months); he just was never grandfathered in.  I wonder if that's why the Mod system isn't intercepting him, whether that's the way it should work or not.  Anyway, I gave him temporary (24-hour) autopatrolled and automoderated.  I'll let it expire and see if his edits go to the Mod Queue afterwards.  If not, something bigger is wrong; otherwise, it's a less significant problem.

Regardless, once the experiment is over, I'll will grant those rights permanently as a belated grandfathering.

DarkMatterMan4500 apparently has deletion rights? See deletion log for The Reapers Series.

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, something is seriously wrong with his rights. He has no memberships in any togglable groups, but his edits bypass the Mod queue and as MC just noted, he's got delete privileges. I've dropped a request to investigate this onto the Stewards' page, but if necessary I'll do up a Phabricator ticket for it.

[Bob Schroeck]

Okay, something is seriously wrong with his rights. He has no memberships in any togglable groups, but his edits bypass the Mod queue and as MC just noted, he's got delete privileges. I've dropped a request to investigate this onto the Stewards' page, but if necessary I'll do up a Phabricator ticket for it.

And we have an answer -- it's not a bug, or a hack, or anything like that.

Hello @Looney Toons, to answer your immediate question, @DarkMatterMan4500 is part of our global patroller group which is tasked with counter-vandalism activities globally on the Miraheze platform. This is why they were able to take actions beyond what local rights would normally permit.
These rights generally should only be used on request from the local community or on untended wikis without active administration specifically for counter-vandalism. We'll review internally to confirm appropriateness of usage and if follow-up action is needed on our part.
Thanks for the report!
--NotAracham (talk • contribs • global) 19:36, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

In which case, no issue at all.

I'm going to go in and give him a belated grandfathering, more as a symbolic thing given he has far more rights than it would grant. As for page deletions, he's already responded on the Stewards' page that he will leave that to us from now on.

EDIT: No, I lied. There is an unexpected hole in Moderation, but not one that would affect any usual users:

Moderation is more difficult. I passed this through to tech and apparently there is a behavior where people with rollback also skip moderation. This was found by {{user|RhinosF1}] reviewing the code and doesn't seem to be documented. This was a choice on the part of the Moderation developer(s) and since rollback is a crucial part of CVT this is not something we can casually remove. ... --raidarr (?) 17:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

If someone has rollback rights on ATT, I would expect they're already trusted sufficiently that they'd be automoderated anyway.

[robkelk]

I would hope so, since we have to specifically give rollback rights to individual tropers. That means at least one Bureaucrat trusts them.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

The new trope workshop page for Put on a Prison Bus is obviously a slightly paraphrased version from the other wiki.

• The image is the same, featuring a black "Prison Bus" with stop signs that say "Party in Progress", and the caption is also a rendition of "The Wheels on the bus", albeit with a different ending.
  
• The first few words of the article are exactly the same, and the overall organization is the same.
  
• Redlinks tropes we don’t have.
  
• Pokémon examples are paraphrased and in reversed order.
  
• Etc…
  

I’m not against someone expressing this trope in the workshop, and it appears there is at least a little original content but I don’t think it is safe to build off this proposal. My opinion is that it should be deleted, and that a new entirely original proposal be made from scratch if the users of the wiki would like to add this trope.

[GethN7]

The new trope workshop page for Put on a Prison Bus is obviously a slightly paraphrased version from the other wiki.

• The image is the same, featuring a black "Prison Bus" with stop signs that say "Party in Progress", and the caption is also a rendition of "The Wheels on the bus", albeit with a different ending.
  
• The first few words of the article are exactly the same, and the overall organization is the same.
  
• Redlinks tropes we don’t have.
  
• Pokémon examples are paraphrased and in reversed order.
  
• Etc…
  

I’m not against someone expressing this trope in the workshop, and it appears there is at least a little original content but I don’t think it is safe to build off this proposal. My opinion is that it should be deleted, and that a new entirely original proposal be made from scratch if the users of the wiki would like to add this trope.

Concur. It should be done "clean room", as in, aside from the name, no one should even LOOK at TV Tropes to avoid impropriety. In fact, I just looked it over, and yeah, this is way too much of a similarity that I'm comfortable with, so for the sake of the legal safety of the wiki, I'm going to delete it and I'm going to inform the user responsible we want this done "clean room style" or not at all.

Made a more legally safe version here:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Trope_Work...Prison_Bus

[Bob Schroeck]

<sigh> I told him we needed a completely original version. Obviously I didn't make it clear enough just what that meant.

[robkelk]

Minor annoyance rather than problem:

Similar names, identical single-issue-posting pattern, "Soturnupthefun" did not start posting until after "Soturnupthelights" was given a moderator notice ... call me paranoid, but I've asked for a checkuser.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

That seems prudent, given the edit trends after the first warning.

[Bob Schroeck]

How did I miss that?

[MilkmanConspiracy]

The new trope workshop page for Put on a Prison Bus is obviously a slightly paraphrased version from the other wiki.

• The image is the same, featuring a black "Prison Bus" with stop signs that say "Party in Progress", and the caption is also a rendition of "The Wheels on the bus", albeit with a different ending.
  
• The first few words of the article are exactly the same, and the overall organization is the same.
  
• Redlinks tropes we don’t have.
  
• Pokémon examples are paraphrased and in reversed order.
  
• Etc…
  

I’m not against someone expressing this trope in the workshop, and it appears there is at least a little original content but I don’t think it is safe to build off this proposal. My opinion is that it should be deleted, and that a new entirely original proposal be made from scratch if the users of the wiki would like to add this trope.

Concur. It should be done "clean room", as in, aside from the name, no one should even LOOK at TV Tropes to avoid impropriety. In fact, I just looked it over, and yeah, this is way too much of a similarity that I'm comfortable with, so for the sake of the legal safety of the wiki, I'm going to delete it and I'm going to inform the user responsible we want this done "clean room style" or not at all.

Made a more legally safe version here:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Trope_Work...Prison_Bus

I'd like a second opinion, since I know that I’ve jumped the gun before.

I think the first paragraph of what was recently added for the reapers series is much the same in origin, but not the second paragraph.

[GethN7]

The new trope workshop page for Put on a Prison Bus is obviously a slightly paraphrased version from the other wiki.

• The image is the same, featuring a black "Prison Bus" with stop signs that say "Party in Progress", and the caption is also a rendition of "The Wheels on the bus", albeit with a different ending.
  
• The first few words of the article are exactly the same, and the overall organization is the same.
  
• Redlinks tropes we don’t have.
  
• Pokémon examples are paraphrased and in reversed order.
  
• Etc…
  

I’m not against someone expressing this trope in the workshop, and it appears there is at least a little original content but I don’t think it is safe to build off this proposal. My opinion is that it should be deleted, and that a new entirely original proposal be made from scratch if the users of the wiki would like to add this trope.

Concur. It should be done "clean room", as in, aside from the name, no one should even LOOK at TV Tropes to avoid impropriety. In fact, I just looked it over, and yeah, this is way too much of a similarity that I'm comfortable with, so for the sake of the legal safety of the wiki, I'm going to delete it and I'm going to inform the user responsible we want this done "clean room style" or not at all.

Made a more legally safe version here:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Trope_Work...Prison_Bus

I'd like a second opinion, since I know that I’ve jumped the gun before.

I think the first paragraph of what was recently added for the reapers series is much the same in origin, but not the second paragraph.

Checked the history on TV Tropes, nigh all of it matches his own contributions there. I suggest he be encouraged to add that to his edit reasons to avoid confusion, with the caveat that we will check to be sure.

[robkelk]

Minor annoyance rather than problem:

Similar names, identical single-issue-posting pattern, "Soturnupthefun" did not start posting until after "Soturnupthelights" was given a moderator notice ... call me paranoid, but I've asked for a checkuser.

"Based on the technical evidence, the two accounts are very likely the same user. Reception123 (talk) (C) 12:48, 21 March 2025 (UTC)"

Not a bannable offence, since we haven't even tempbanned either account, but if for some reason it does come t that we'll have to remember to tempban both.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

Regarding the pending edit for the Ror Empire, it’s a bit curious. I don’t care if it’s notable or not (As is policy), but if it’s not real (And not stated to be mythical or the like), would it be a barrier to acceptance of a useful notes page? I’m not really sure how to approach this as is - I would be a lot more comfortable if there was at least a single depiction in media to back up the claims made. (At least as a setting). I would love to be proven wrong.

Additional Info:

It claims to be an ancient empire that lasted for about a thousand years spanning part or all of what is modern day Pakistan and India (?), and yet I can’t find a single reliable English language source for its existence (A Wikidata and Wikimedia Commons page without sources is iffy). It also claims the empire had one emperor who lived for its duration, but such claims of long life are not uncommon for ancient figures.

While English language scholarship of many places outside the global north is lacking, I doubt they would miss such an empire that lasted so long and covered so much land, especially when it well could have likely come into contact and conflict with Alexander the Great given the claimed times and territorial extent. The Hindi Wikipedia also seems skeptical of its verifiability, though I am relying on translation software to understand it, and there is possibly nuance I am missing.

[robkelk]

Regarding the pending edit for the Ror Empire, it’s a bit curious. I don’t care if it’s notable or not (As is policy), but if it’s not real (And not stated to be mythical or the like), would it be a barrier to acceptance of a useful notes page? ...

It's pure fiction, as stated. Even I know that the period given for this so-called "Ror Empire" -- of which I cannot find any mention in either the Encyclopedia Britannica or Wikipedia -- includes the period of the Mauryan Empire, which reached its largest extent under Ashoka... and I'm almost completely unaware of the history of the Indian subcontinent.

"Creating pages for bogus or non-existent works or creators that attempt to deceive the reader into believing they're real" is grounds for an immediate permanent ban. I'll do the necessary.

EDIT: And done.

[Bob Schroeck]

This may just be a symptom of the greater problem both ATT and the KanriKyara wiki have been seeing, but the Unused Redirects special page (which holds cached info that in the past has been updated every three or four days) hasn't been updated since March 16.

Just noting this.

[GethN7]

We have a problem with some spoiler pages:

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/HuniePop/Characters

Two of the character mentioned here are known secret character, but we have no easy way to hide it, but I can think of two ways.

One involves use of the Tabs feature, where we have two tabs, one to show nothing, with the other marked "spoilers", and that has all the character info. The plus to this method is so long as we rename the section header to something "Spoiler Character #1 (increase number for how many spoiler characters there are), we can thus hide the spoilers without denying those who don't care the information.

The other method is a spoiler hiding template to autohide the section data, unhidden if clicked on. Problem is, that won't change the header.

[robkelk]

As long as the character names are in headers, neither of those will work. The only fix that will work is to take the spoilers out of the headers.

If you're worried about spoilers in the text, just use the Spoiler template. That's what it's there for.

[GethN7]

As long as the character names are in headers, neither of those will work. The only fix that will work is to take the spoilers out of the headers.

If you're worried about spoilers in the text, just use the Spoiler template. That's what it's there for.

Actually, the tab solution works fine if you rename the header something like "Spoiler character", and only make the name visible in the spoiler tab section.

[robkelk]

We already know that Tabs creates formatting errors. I'd rather avoid it unless we absolutely need to use it.

[robkelk]

Just a heads-up that I have to focus on the freebie wiki for a while. I'll still be here, but my contributions will reduce considerably for the immediate future.

[robkelk]

This discussion on wikipedia might be of interest, since ATT has a page about the same work and has the same technical limitation regarding page names.