Oh, well, that's okay, then.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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All The Tropes Wiki Archive
All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part II
All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part II
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All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part II
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Well, I knew we'd have a few problems with being the largest user of a wiki farm. As much as I'd like to get upset, this was actually about the level of service I expected: pretty responsive admins, who don't have everything sorted out yet.
Anyway, I couldn't stand seeing Bob editing all of those quote templates manually, so I went ahead and whipped up a bot. I suppose I ought to do the same thing for spoiler markup. -- ∇×V 
Yeah, I realized that bot was running when I kept refreshing the list and spotting more titles disappearing than I'd edited -- or opening up a page and finding it fixed already. Very cool. The bot wasn't perfect, but it was damned close -- we're down to under 20 pages that need manual fixing. Thank you very much!
-- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak. 
Good news: The guys at Orain have resolved a ton of outstanding issues and are planning to increase our server memory limits so we can do a lot of cool stuff we've been wanting to do for awhile now.
Bad news: If anyone wants me to replace our forum with an LQT based version that is more comprehensive, or wants me to do any other major projects, I'm afraid that will have to wait until sometime next week since I'm supposed to be getting a WLAN card for my new computer, and since I backed up everything on my old one (including my localhost clone of ATT), I won't be able to do any serious bugtesting or development of a more fully featured forum, assuming most everyone supports the idea still. However, I plan to make it so when new users make an account they get an automatic welcome message that includes links to our rules and what we are about on their talk page. The prototype template for that idea is here, if anyone wants to work on it or offer any suggestions: http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/User:GethN7/sandbox 
I've been browsing through the tropes, and recently, I've begun to notice that there are pages with improper Word-Spacing. I imagine this is due to whatever parsing you used in the import. e.g. http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Sta ... d_Republic .. I know I've seen others, but I haven't gotten them written down. Be on the lookout n'at.
--- The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself." >Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
Yeah, the import script (? parser? whatever it was Brent whipped up) did that a bit more than we'd like. We've been fixing them as we come across them.
Edit: that one in particular? A redirect going to the properly-named page: http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Sta ... eo_Game%29 -- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak.
Okay, after checking out various special pages, it seems to me that those of us doing post-import cleanup need to focus on the following next:
-- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak. 
Work on the Double Redirects first - they're the easiest to fix. (A redirects to B, but B redirects to C - edit A so it redirects to C. Lather, rinse, repeat. Heck, a properly-written bot could do this... too bad I don't know how to write a bot.)
Broken Redirects are next-easiest. The fix is usually to edit the redirect, but you have to go look through the wiki to discover what to point the redirect to. (If there's no appropriate page, then treat the broken redirect as a Wanted Page.) Orphaned Pages need links to them from other wiki pages. Considering how many of these are YMMV pages and the like, it might be easier to pretend they don't exist. There will always be Wanted Pages. Somebody has to actually write the silly things, and how often does that happen? -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Orphaned looks to have a fair number of works and subpages with no link from their superpage too. (I also notice what looks like someone started turning Brick Joke into subpages, but the main page was never changed over... and not all the examples seem to be on the subpages. Or vice versa. o.O )
-Morgan.
Yeah, I had Brick Joke on my list of things to do last night but it didn't get done.
I suspect we might be able to find a lot of correspondances between Wanted and Orphaned pages, given the vagaries of the import process. -- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak.
Work on Double Redirects last. We can just have the admin staff run fixDoubleRedirects.php. I'd rather you focused on tasks that definitely need manual intervention, from the Todo page. Especially the stuff in Category:Checknamespace and the pages that link to "Home Page".
Actually, I was here to ask a question. Should I delete the forum roleplay page We Are Our Avatars? It's uncurated, based on the TVT forums, and generally kind of a sprawling mess. The counter argument, to me, is that it's a creative work, and I can't just go around deleting stuff because I don't like it. But is it a creative work? It seems a bit more like the Snarl from OotS to me, with different authors going for disparate goals. -- ∇×V
Ooh, good question. I've gone over more than a few WAOA subpages during my other cleanups, and I have to agree, it's a sprawling mess. I think it's less about analyzing the RPG than documenting it. I'm thinking don't delete it, but prune it down radically and make it a bit less self-congratulatory.
re: Double Redirects. Right. -- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak.
Sorry if I've been making myself scarce lately, but my Internets have been down thanks to power issues and bandwidth problems, though both have been resolved by now.
I agree with the pruning down of WAOA pages, and while I personally wouldn't shed any tears if it was purged off the site, it is arguably a creative work, if only barely, so if anyone wants to prune it, go 4 it.
I think my reasoning on this ended up being fairly easy, despite a long stretch of thought on it. Not wanting to invent arbitrary rules, I tried to approach We Are Our Avatars from the standpoint of whether it counts as a creative work or not. There are some contraindications, like having 25% or less complete sentences in the posts, a general lack of a plot or theme. But that eventually degrades into the "what is art?" question, which is always a losing battle.
Instead, I thought about it not being a "separate work" from TV Tropes, and thus relagated to subpages thereof. And while it is probably inseparable, it really isn't indicative of content there as a whole. Perhaps indicative of the RP forum content as a whole, though. And moving things to subpages would not solve the real problem, which was basically IHTFPage, and want to delete it. And I wanted to rules lawyer my way into justifying it. Okay, that's not healthy at all. Bob's comment above sort of got me thinking on a different tack, though. While I hate the work, I also hate our pages on them. And when pages are bad, they require a cleanup. Translating this to my programming experience (with which I have a bit more experience than creative writing), there are three things in the toolbelt for improving bad stuff: Refactoring, Rewriting, and Rewriting From Scratch. We're above the refactoring level, and so I'm left with this question: Would it be easier to rewrite the page group from a blank slate? I'm not sure yet, but at least I think I finally have the right question. -- ∇×V
Did you guys delete Tropers Do It w/o Notability? cause theres just the index page, nothing more.
And the title search doesnt work anymore. Edit: Forget that, now it works again. Another Troper Wrote:Did you guys delete Tropers Do It w/o Notability? cause theres just the index page, nothing more. http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Tro ... Notability The subpages appear to be missing, but they might have the wrong titles due to some of them getting farbled up on import. If not, we can always import to June 2012 versions from the Wayback Machine.
What I said, what happened to the subpages? They were funny, kinda.
It appears I never grabbed them. My guess is that because the namespace began with "Tropers", my script decided not to download them -- I decided very early on we were not going to save user pages. If we want them, we'll have to reconstruct them off of archive.org.
-- ∇×V
I'd like to propose a new site policy: names for work pages should be standardized to Wikipedia's names if at all possible.
We have been doing that anyway, but for organizational purposes, it would make sorting of certain works a lot easier in the long run, and I propose we make it a site policy that we strongly recommend this where necessary.
I'm only quasi-on-board with the above suggestion.
I tend to like spellings without the macron (o, u, etc.), because it's actually spelled "ou" or "uu" in a moraically timed language like Japanese. This was more or less the standard on TVT, though it was mainly inspired by the software's idea of /w/. The other issue is that if we have a page on "Roots", we really don't need to disambiguate that from "Roots, Michigan" or taproots. Mirroring the title there "Roots (TV miniseries)" isn't all that helpful on the current wiki. So I think I want to oppose the above suggestion. On the other hand, where we do need disambiguation, we might as well match the Wikipedia style. Tags like "(novel)" or "(TV series)" or "(manga)" are better than the uppercase versions. And if you have the AutoComplete gadget on, you don't have to guess the correct namespace, add you did on TVT. -- ∇×V vorticity Wrote:I tend to like spellings without the macron (o, u, etc.), because it's actually spelled "ou" or "uu" in a moraically timed language like Japanese.Only if you use the Hepburn romanization method (which, I'll grant, is very popular, but not the only way to do it). Moraically timed languages rarely use the latin alphabet at all. -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
I think we might need to put the user Beta Log 86 back on "needs patrolling" status. I looked at a few of his/her recent changes and they're not exactly well-written -- grammar, wordchoice and other errors that need rewriting for the material to be comprehensible at times. In a few cases I actually had to guess at what they meant to say.
-- Bob --------- Then the horns kicked in... ...and my shoes began to squeak. Bob Schroeck Wrote:I think we might need to put the user Beta Log 86 back on "needs patrolling" status. I looked at a few of his/her recent changes and they're not exactly well-written -- grammar, wordchoice and other errors that need rewriting for the material to be comprehensible at times. In a few cases I actually had to guess at what they meant to say. Edit: I am extremely happy to announce that we now have a content (not images) dump of ATT available: http://static.orain.org/common/dumps/allthetropes/ It is a dump from March 7, 2014 (latest revision dump, not full history), both in compressed (.zip) and uncompressed (.xml) downloadable format. robkelk Wrote:Only if you use the Hepburn romanization method (which, I'll grant, isOh cool, maybe we can start a linguistics discussion here. I'm really only familiar with Japanese here. The hiragana uses the digraph ?? for the long /o/ sound (which is really /oo/, not /o?/), with the exception of words like ? (???), which use letters from the ? column twice. So repeated letters to me seems to match the original language better. And incidentally, that's a bit closer to Nihon-shiki romanization than Hepburn, Nihon-shiki but doesn't match the English graphemes as well. Though, in general, we probably do want to use romanized spellings on the wiki. Not that I have a problem with redirects in the original character set. The other thing -- someone from a TVT forum roleplay suggested that they're never going to update on our site, and it would be a good idea to get rid of the pages. I'm finding myself agreeing for a lot of reasons they didn't mention. The largest of which is that we're not going to want those pages in their current form (roleplay reference), but instead as literary analysis. I'm proposing to delete all of the TVT roleplays without prejudice -- like dismissing a case without prejudice, it means we have no problem with the content being restored later. But for now, it's a distraction to the core mission, and no one really wants to improve/rewrite them now. Any opinions on deletion? -- ∇×V |
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